Dr Deco (and Scubaboard) on Techdiver

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rcohn

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I found this today and thought others might be interested so I've listed the links. I'll apologize in advance for posting this, apparently, Dr. Deco is not DIR. It's in the usual kind and gentle style of the Techdiver list.

For anyone who doesn't know Trey is George Irvine's nickname.


http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?49811,subject
http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?49818,subject
http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?49816,subject
http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?49819,subject
http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?49824,subject
http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?49826,subject
http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?49855,subject

and to see the questions that started this:
http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?49776,subject

Ralph
 
Every now and then I let his successes and my respect for some of the members of his team make me forget about George's narrow, pugnacious NIH demeanor, and read another of his posts.
Thanks for the reminder.
Rick
 
On one hand you have to respect all that he has done....

On the other hand you have to wonder where he learned such wonderful communication skills....

There are excellent nuggets of information in his posts -- I just have a hard time swallowing his "I am a diving god and the rest of you are bumbling idiots" attitude
 
Dear Readers:

That was certainly an interesting exchange on the Techdiver board. It does illustrate that decompression has, as with many things, differing viewpoints.

I would offer only a few comments that are quite general. These are not in reply to any thing specifically but rather are general comments that I feel are necessary to avoid confusion in the diving community with respect to the Dr Deco column.

DIFFERENCES IN INTERPRETATION.
[sp] All science at the daily, working level has differences in the interpretation of data. What we read in textbooks as “science” is that material that is tried and true and upon which virtually all scientists would agree. This is not what the working scientist does. Science is a “body contact sport” and not a task of memorizing a set of facts. I try to impart that concept to students when speaking to them.
[sp] If science were rote memorization, it would not be fun. It is the constant, daily give and take. It is the inevitable battles. This demonstrates that differences in opinion will exist. All professional scientists are willing to accept that. The readers of this FORUM must also bear in mind that much of the questions asked are on the edge of technology and/or physiology and some of this material will be my opinion. I have tried to indicate when it was mostly my opinion - - not only in fairness, but because I know that my scientific colleagues read this series.

RESEARCH FUNDING
[sp]Many times readers wish to know why something has not been studied. Very often, it is simply a matter of research funding. Most are not aware of the actual mechanics of the research funding process and do not understand how this is done. Not every valid question will be studied because there is simply NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO ANSWER AND INVESTIGATE EVERYTHING.

RESEARCH FUNDING IN DECOMPRESSION
[sp]There is relatively little money for decompression research. Recreational diving DCS is not high up on the list compared to AIDS, heart attack, cancer and stroke. Some programs directed towards specific questions are run by the Navy and Air Force, and some by NASA in the United States. The Canadians and the British have a program. The Germans did, but I do not believe it is very active today. Some diving research is performed in France and Norway.
[sp] NASA does not fund studies related to recreational scuba diving. NASA works only with respect to decompression problems in space with its astronauts. By most standards, these programs could be larger. However, all scientists will tell you that their programs should be bigger.

DECOMPRESSION SICKNESS LABORATORY WORK
[sp] It is not possible to study all questions concerning decompression sickness, since sometimes you can get into serious difficulties and a test subject could become injured. As is true with many studies, I have participated in them before asking others to be a subject. This has been true for several decades with me personally, and I am not alone in this aspect.
[sp]However, personal opinion does not satisfy legal people when risk is concerned. This is because most scientists are personally immune from lawsuits since they are the employees of a larger organization. The parent organization is liable for the scientist’s mistakes, and therefore many individuals will watch what is done.
[sp] Neurological DCS is a big question and many interesting studies COULD be done but will not because this is dangerous to the test subject. Thus, when I state that “bending over to pick up a scuba tank will quite possibly cause nucleation in the spinal cord,” I am speaking from a theoretical perspective based on observations in muscle tissue with Doppler bubble detectors. Have I ever had a series of twenty people become supersaturated and then had them flex their spinal column several times to see if I can induce neurologic DCS? No. And I doubt that I will ever have the chance to perform such a study. Furthermore, no one should volunteer for such a study. I believe that I am dispensing good advice based on extrapolation of scientific knowledge - - but some things cannot be tried in a laboratory.

FEEDBACK FROM READERS
[sp]It is interesting when a reader comments that such straining did precipitate a case of neurological DCS. While that does not confirm the theory, after several years, one hears enough stories to believe that you are one the right track. This feedback from the field in invaluable when you know that it can never be corroborated in the laboratory for medico legal reasons.
[sp] Without the effort to produce this FORUM, I would not receive the replies that I do. Likewise, with the Decompression Physiology class. One gets new feedback all of the time. I receive this as “payment” from all of the effort.

WKPP
[sp]This group, from what I know of them from the web site, is involved in diving, and it has apparently developed a very good record of accomplishment with respect to diving and decompression. They have a specialized niche in the world, as does NASA. No one will benefit directly from NASA procedures for EVA unless you are an astronaut performing extravehicular activity. Possible WKPP procedures are similarly specialized. Likewise, what is good for one group may not be of use to another and vice verse. We need take what is useful and set the rest aside – possibly for another day.
[sp]None of what NASA does is of value to recreational divers. It is only through my interpretation of that activity with respect to scuba divers that something useful will result. If some of this is known to others, that is fine. If my interpretations are not thought to be correct, that is also possible. Not all of my interpretations are agreed upon by all scientists here at NASA in barophysiological work. Why should the rest of the world be different. I do stand on my thirty-year record of accomplishment, however.

CODA
[sp]I trust that this material is of benefit to recreational divers, that is, the tax payers of the United States whose taxes made this possible. While not everyone believes that every government project is of value, I believe that most are happy to hear that they are directly getting something for their tax dollar in space. [Bear in mind also that I do this as a private citizen and not acting as an employee of NASA. I trust that everyone knows that this is a site of ScubaSource and not an official NASA site.]
______________________
Michael R. Powell, MS, PhD, aka Dr Deco
 
Dr Powell,
Personally speaking, I've had the opportunity to sit down and take a look at the exchange on the other site and make my own conclusions here.

I for one have said it before and will say it again. I appreciate all that you have done and will continue to do for the recreational scuba diving community. Your knowledge and personal dedication as well as your self-sacrificing commitment to assist fellow divers by participating in daily exchanges has not and will not go unnoticed.

I think that most people don't fully understand what all of that means. It's not like anyone is paying you or forcing you to spend countless hours helping others out of the kindness of your heart. Well duh!

So why the personal attack? Please don't let others with chips on their shoulders cast a shadow over your efforts here. Everything in life is earned. I'm sure plenty of blood sweat and tears went into everything you've earned in life, as is probably true for the other gentleman as well. But the fashion in which you present yourself on a public forum such as this... with complete dignity, just emphasises further that I've made the right choice in participating here. I've learned alot Doc, and look forward to learning much more. Thank you.


Mario S Caner





 
Sorry Mario,
George may be many things worthy of high praise, but "gentleman" isn't one of 'em. Sorta' makes one wonder if his mama knows he talks to folks like that.
Rick
 
So GI is on the loose again. Figures, don't think too much about it Dr. D, from what I've heard he is the "master" and nobody else on the planet can touch him nor tell him anything he doesn't already know. All the doctors before him that developed safe diving standards are all full it, he is "God of Diving".

Like Mario, I've enjoyed reading your very detailed replies to posts on this board. And I appreciate the time you have spent here helping us to understand some of princeables of decompression.
 
I have been part of this board for a few months now and have been very impressed with the quality, tact and integrity shown in the replies to all questions asked. To all those who spend their time and effort in being so helpful, a BIG thank you.

Whatever GI knows about deco, he should read this board to learn some manners if nothing else.



 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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