downloading to PC

[fjpatrum]

I'm considering buying a used computer here on the classifieds but I have a question that may impact that decision.

I have the ability to build USB cables so it seems to me buying the appropriate cable from the manufacturer for $40-$100 is ridiculous.

I'm wondering what else comes with these cables? IE, I'm looking at the Oceanic VEO180 but I'm not really interested in paying an extra surcharge to be able to download the dive profiles to my computer.

My question is basically, if I have another piece of software, can I download my dives directly to that or will I need the appropriate hardware/software from Oceanic to "translate" the dives into a file format and then be able to use whatever dive log software I like?

I checked out the Oceanic website, but it's not really clear to me since I don't know a lot about dive computer file "standards" if there are such things. The Oceanic website implies there is some sort of standard, but I'm not sure.

 

[lowviz]

.......... it seems to me buying the appropriate cable from the manufacturer for $40-$100 is ridiculous...............

Same with IR links.

..........My question is basically, if I have another piece of software, can I download my dives directly to that or will I need the appropriate hardware/software from Oceanic to "translate" the dives into a file format and then be able to use whatever dive log software I like?................

You are most likely stuck with the manufacturer's software, at least initially. You have to establish communication with your computer to download. But first try to establish communication with the manufacturer and get them into transmit mode. -their software may be free since it can't be used with anyone else's dive computer. If their software allows you to export your dives into other formats like Excel etc., all is well. If not, store then open one of your dives (in their 'special' format) with Freeware Hex Editor XVI32 and see what you are up against -as far as potential translation is concerned.

Try re-posting in Oceanic's manufacturer forum area. I would have done that with my manufacturer but SP doesn't talk to their own customers, I've tried and tried.

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

You need the appropriate software from Oceanic but the good news is the driver for the adapter and the software package is a free download.

 

[Liquivision]

I have the ability to build USB cables so it seems to me buying the appropriate cable from the manufacturer for $40-$100 is ridiculous.

Actually it is not ridiculous at all. Dive computers are a small volume item, unlike a mass market IR dongle which might be built in batches of 6,000,000 pieces.

In small volumes, the parts cost for a simple PC interface may be $10 or even more if it has any type of translation circuitry. Add labor ($1), then double it for the wholesale price ($22). Then add 50% for the distributor margin (resulting in $33), then the dive shop must double it again to make a profit ($66).

In each case (manufacturer, distributor, dive shop), each of those companies is barely making a net profit if you count their overhead expenses. Yet the customer ends up paying $66 for a relatively simple item. That's how it works for low volume items sold through standard channels.

So, the price of $66 may seem like a lot compared to a mass market IR dongle, but no one is getting rich or ripping anyone off.


Eric

 

[fjpatrum]

Actually it is not ridiculous at all. Dive computers are a small volume item, unlike a mass market IR dongle which might be built in batches of 6,000,000 pieces.

In small volumes, the parts cost for a simple PC interface may be $10 or even more if it has any type of translation circuitry. Add labor ($1), then double it for the wholesale price ($22). Then add 50% for the distributor margin (resulting in $33), then the dive shop must double it again to make a profit ($66).

In each case (manufacturer, distributor, dive shop), each of those companies is barely making a net profit if you count their overhead expenses. Yet the customer ends up paying $66 for a relatively simple item. That's how it works for low volume items sold through standard channels.

So, the price of $66 may seem like a lot compared to a mass market IR dongle, but no one is getting rich or ripping anyone off.


Eric

I think we have different definitions of ridiculous. I was actually quoting "direct from the manufacturer" prices. I wasn't trying to imply that the manufacturers are deliberately gouging the customer, though it does read that way looking at it again. I recognize that companies need to make some profit.

My point was that, as far as I can tell from the Oceanic website, it's just a cable, which I can build for less than $6 in parts or buy for $2 from some overseas vendor if I really want to. If there is more to it (I can't be sure, yet) then the price is more reasonable because of the reasons you stated. I don't know but, either way, I guarantee I can build it cheaper than I can buy it, even as a "one-off" because any of the translation being done would have to be trivially easy and require very simple chipsets. At $99 for the OceanLog "dongle", that's a bit too much markup for me, especially for an "entry level" computer like the Veo180 seems to be.

I did just find the DataPlus software to download today while digging through the Oceanic site, so maybe I can find a way to download info off my current computer. The software for the Veo180 is also free so at least I can do the downloads if I can figure out the hardware side.

When I'm ready for a full-function high end computer I won't have much issue with dumping the extra money for a manufacturer's download option, but right now I'm buying used gear because I'm on a budget. Paying a premium on top of that makes it much less enticing to buy used gear, which is good for the manufacturers but isn't so good for me, right now.

 

[Spg01]

Actually it is not ridiculous at all. Dive computers are a small volume item, unlike a mass market IR dongle which might be built in batches of 6,000,000 pieces.

In small volumes, the parts cost for a simple PC interface may be $10 or even more if it has any type of translation circuitry. Add labor ($1), then double it for the wholesale price ($22). Then add 50% for the distributor margin (resulting in $33), then the dive shop must double it again to make a profit ($66).

In each case (manufacturer, distributor, dive shop), each of those companies is barely making a net profit if you count their overhead expenses. Yet the customer ends up paying $66 for a relatively simple item. That's how it works for low volume items sold through standard channels.

So, the price of $66 may seem like a lot compared to a mass market IR dongle, but no one is getting rich or ripping anyone off.


Eric

If they did not want to make money off of the cables they could have made the computers to work off of a standard cable or even IR. But instead they make it to where you have to use their cable if you want the information.

If I could get to the data on the computer I could write my own program to display/save the data anywhere I wanted. But then again they probably use custom protocols to even transfer the data. So I am not buy the poor manufacturers are not making any money.

Just a sore spot because it is still over $100 for a transfer cable on my Tusa that is close to 3 years old.

 

[tincan715]

My point was that, as far as I can tell from the Oceanic website, it's just a cable, which I can build for less than $6 in parts or buy for $2 from some overseas vendor if I really want to.

I've never handled an Oceanic computer but my Mares has a proprietary connector; I suspect they all do.

 

[fjpatrum]

I've never handled an Oceanic computer but my Mares has a proprietary connector; I suspect they all do.

Even with a proprietary connector I could still build it for about $6-8 dollars. I can source just about any electronic part necessary to build whatever I want, if I really want to bother with it. The question is really whether it's even worth the effort to start. I'm trying to determine now what information is actually stored by the Oceanic computers but finding that data is a little difficult for some reason. I would have expected that to be one of the selling features for people, but apparently it's not.

There are a couple of specific data points I want from a computer and so far I haven't found anything from Oceanic telling me whether or not they are stored. I'm assuming they aren't, at this point, which is disappointing.

 

[Spg01]

Can you download the software for free? If so, install it and look around at what it does. You could also try downloading the manual and poke through it for info.

What data points are you looking for? I would guess that if the info shows on the computer it would be recorded.

 

[ScubaVideo]

How much is your time worth? Yes you can do the parts and shipping cost cheaply, but your already spending time just researching, let alone the purchase and build time.

I agree too that manufacturers go out of their way to make proprietary cables, and software so they have an additional sales source. Look how long phone companies have been doing this same thing.

I really like the IR on my Uwatec Galileo Sol, no additional cost for cables as I already have an IR receiver. But then again, the Uwatec costs a lot more than most to start with.