DON'T shoot in manual mode

[Akimbo]

Great photographers are still fixated on the art of capturing and manipulating light, with all the tools available. The trouble is that there are a lot more hacks like me producing interesting images now than in the film days. I finally accepted that I will never be an art photographer and am much happier once I realized and accepted that I use photography for documentation.

Being a technically-oriented guy, I don't think digital photography is all that different than film. The big difference is many more people have access to image processing software than we had to darkrooms. There were auto-exposure film cameras, just with fewer options to manage the automatic processes. It is interesting that a recent article in Diver magazine re-introduced Ansel Adams' Zone System for B&W photography.

 

[Storker]

You kinda shooting yourself in the leg here..
- "DON'T shoot manual"
- "Manual exposure? No thanks."

To me at least that's saying; "how i do things is the only acceptable alternative".

I'll admit to some slight trolling. I just was ever-so-slightly fed up with the YOU MUST SHOOT MANUAL!!!!1111!!! meme

---------- Post added October 3rd, 2015 at 07:07 PM ----------

It is interesting that a recent article in Diver magazine re-introduced Ansel Adams' Zone System for B&W photography.

Re-introduced?

I've been using it for more than twenty years, since when I first learned it. And AFAIK, it's been alive and well among topside hobby photogs all that time. And it works quite well for color as well

 

[the_dragon_no1]

I'll admit to some slight trolling. I just was ever-so-slightly fed up with the YOU MUST SHOOT MANUAL!!!!1111!!! meme

[emoji196] [emoji108]
Yeah i hear you.. And don't get me wrong I'm not one of "those", but i still belive you don't have the same control as in M.
I'm one of those who don't wanna risk missing out on a perfect shot because i didn't shoot manual and get the picture exactly how i wanted it to come out.

 

[Storker]

i still belive you don't have the same control as in M.

Totally agree. However, if you know how to dial in exposure bias, the difference between M and one of the auto modes becomes radically smaller. IMO, of course.

I'm one of those who don't wanna risk missing out on a perfect shot because i didn't shoot manual and get the picture exactly how i wanted it to come out.

I assume you're using fixed ISO as well, then? Isn't that a bit of a PITA when you go from 3m to 30m and still want to capture a little ambient to give some atmosphere to the image?

That's also the reason I never bother with setting WB: it varies too much from the surface to the bottom. I shoot raw and fix WB in post.

 

[the_dragon_no1]

Totally agree. However, if you know how to dial in exposure bias, the difference between M and one of the auto modes becomes radically smaller. IMO, of course.


I assume you're using fixed ISO as well, then? Isn't that a bit of a PITA when you go from 3m to 30m and still want to capture a little ambient to give some atmosphere to the image?

That's also the reason I never bother with setting WB: it varies too much from the surface to the bottom. I shoot raw and fix WB in post.

Fixed iso ? Nooo no.. I adj my iso for ever photo according to the rest of the settings.
Wb i always do in post.

 

[Akimbo]

… Re-introduced?...

I chose “re-introduced” because the article focused on it as a post-processing rather than a shooting technique. Makes sense since today we would start with a color raw image and convert to B&W on the desktop. Besides, not many people ever heard of the Zone System even in the film days.

They only reason it entered by sphere of visibility is I used to make camera housings for some Brooks Institute grads.

 

[muzikbiz22]

Manual Mode PERIOD.

 

[Storker]

Fixed iso ? Nooo no.. I adj my iso for ever photo according to the rest of the settings.

Bad wording. What I meant was that you're not using auto ISO. Which you're not, apparently.

not many people ever heard of the Zone System even in the film days.

OTOH, a rudimentary version of it used to be pretty well known. Most "serious" hobby photogs I've met evaluate the tone of the scene and dial in some bias (plus or minus one to two EVs) from the meter's recommendation. And -2EV = overall zone 3, +1EV = overall zone 6 etc. If you shot slide film, you really had to do that (plus, often, bracket your exposures to be certain) since you didn't have the luxury to correct the exposure in the darkroom.

A simplified zone system for making good exposures

 

[agilis]

Although my FM is long dead and worn out, my FE2 is in great shape. I still run a roll of Tri-X through it once in a while. Not as often as I'd liked to, though. And I still haven't come over the fact that one of the really great "retro" film brands, Efke, was discontinued the other year.


Me, too. Plus a scanner. I hope to finish the digitization job before I retire.



[video=youtube;wZpaNJqF4po]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZpaNJqF4po[/video]

I'm guilty, too. I quit shooting Kodachrome before it was discontinued.


One should know how to do it. That doesn't necessarily mean you should have to do it all the time. I shoot fine in manual, but quite often, when the subject allows it, I just follow the camera's meter. So why, then, shoot manual? If you know what you do, there's really not much difference between shooting auto or shooting manual, except auto is less work.

Shooting manual:

1. Decide on shutter speed or aperture, depending on subject type and priorities
2. Evaluate overall image. Is it zone 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7?
3. Adjust exposure according to meter. Optionally, dial in exposure bias according to overall zone
4. Shoot

Shooting auto:

1. Decide on shutter speed or aperture, depending on subject type and priorities, set auto mode (P, S, A, or "M" with auto-ISO)
2. Evaluate overall image. Is it zone 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7?. Optionally, dial in exposure bias according to overall zone
3. Shoot

Now, digital shooting gives you the option to chimp, check image lighting and check the histogram and/or blown shadows/highlights, and shoot again. Which means that you can iterate until you get the exposure you want. But there's really no fundamental difference if you do that in manual or in auto.

You forgot #5 in manual: focusing. The combination of calculating the result of shutter speed, f stop, and consequent focus points were essential to composition.

The FE2 is a spectacular camera, incredibly fast, almost infinitely flexible, with nothing more that a battery for the internal light meter and superb mechanicals.

The ability to reshoot is, of course, the overwhelming advantage.

---------- Post added October 3rd, 2015 at 03:49 PM ----------

For some reason parts of my posts disappear. This illustrates an advantage of letter writing.

 

[rob1967]

It looks like Storker is again trolling for a lively debate. Since I am one of those who has been espousing the use of manual mode, I guess I will take the bait!

First off, I don't think anyone here has said you must shoot manual. If you are happy with your photos the way they are, go ahead, keep shooting in auto mode.

Rule #1 for me (and many others have also pointed this out) is that one should not take a camera underwater until they are very comfortable with their buoyancy and situational awareness underwater. I would say this would take on the order of about 200 dives or so for most people. Once you are very comfortable underwater, and you are getting perhaps a little bored just looking at stuff, then maybe you can start thinking about taking a camera underwater. There is really nothing worse on a dive than observing somebody with 30 dives or so flailing around out of control trying to take pictures underwater.

If you want to start off in automatic mode, go right ahead. If you are happy with your photos, that's great. On the other hand, if you are the kind of person who wants to improve their underwater photography (and I would think this would include many people who are perhaps motivated enough to read this forum), then a very good tip is to try manual mode. As I said in another thread, there are several good reasons for that. Most importantly is that automatic modes are designed to work well topside. Taking pictures underwater is different. Underwater, you will probably want to minimize ambient light, and rely more on your strobe to bring out the colours. Automatic modes want to do the opposite; rely on the ambient light and add flash if necessary. Also your camera does not know it is underwater, and has no way to compensate for the fact that the light fall off from your strobe with distance is much greater underwater than topside. The easiest way to take control of your settings is to simply flip the switch to manual. It's easy!

Shooting manual:

1. Decide on shutter speed or aperture, depending on subject type and priorities
2. Evaluate overall image. Is it zone 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7?
3. Adjust exposure according to meter. Optionally, dial in exposure bias according to overall zone
4. Shoot

Shooting auto:

1. Decide on shutter speed or aperture, depending on subject type and priorities, set auto mode (P, S, A, or "M" with auto-ISO)
2. Evaluate overall image. Is it zone 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7?. Optionally, dial in exposure bias according to overall zone
3. Shoot

I am a little confused by this. Why bother metering the scene? Are you afraid of wasting film? Welcome to the digital age! There is no such thing as wasting film anymore. There is also a lot less fiddling with settings than you are implying. Most photographers with some experience have their favourite base settings for wide angle, and their favourite base settings for macro. When I have my macro lens on, I am pre-set to ISO 200, f/16, shutter 1/200, and strobes at half power before I even get in the water. If I want to, I could do the whole dive on those settings. Typically I might only adjust aperture, and perhaps only a few times during an entire dive. If I have to back off for a larger subject, I might open up to f/12. If I have to get close to a very small subject, I might stop down to f/20. Alternatively, I could leave my aperture at a medium setting and adjust strobe power a little as necessary. This is what I did when I was shooting with a compact camera. For wide angle I will bump up my ISO to 400 and open up my shutter a little more. And that's about it.

Since I am shooting digital and not film, I can check my exposure immediately after every shot and it is bang on 95% of the time. If the exposure is not very close to where it should be, it is because perhaps a piece of kelp is blocking a strobe, or maybe one strobe was accidently switched off (which is an occasional nuisance with the YS-01s). But at least I can recognize the problem right away and correct it.

If you are shooting in automatic or a semi-automatic mode, and the exposure is wrong, then it becomes a lot more difficult to diagnose the problem.

Storker is also lumping in all the semi-automatic modes (P, S, "M" with auto-ISO) with automatic which is also confusing. Go ahead and shoot in a semi-automatic mode if you want. If it works for you that is great. Probably you are already used to it from the film era. In my humble opinion, these modes (which basically allow you to control some settings but rely on the camera's meter to get the final exposure right) are relics of the film era when one did not want to waste film. Now that we are well out of the bronze age and into the digital age, you can check you exposure immediately and much more reliably by simply glancing at your LCD screen. Would you not trust your own eye more than the camera's meter?

For these reasons, I think most newer photographers who are seeking to improve their underwater photography will have an easier time just shooting in manual mode rather than in a semi-automatic or automatic mode. But again, this is just my opinion. Nobody is telling anybody what to do here. Except for perhaps Storker ("DON'T shoot in manual").

cheers and happy diving!