Don't know what happened

[Jcp2]

I still think you were a bit underweighted and need to do a proper weight check and then add 1-2 pounds. And consider Force Fins if you have a quad driven kick.

 

[Storker]

Going from the OP:

Current. Strong or mild, I don't know.

You're a DM and you can't evaluate current?

what I found interesting is that I had the feeling that the group composed of the instructor and the three inexperienced divers was moving more efficiently that me.

Food for thought.

If you're going to be a dive leader (yes, PADI DM is supposed to fulfil the ISO requirements for dive leader, as are BSAC DL and CMAS 3*), you should be capable to analyze the situation and move at least as efficiently as your students. If you can't, you might want to seek remedial learning.

With my CMAS3 cert (the Euro equivalent to PADI DM, plus some), if a not-certified diver did better than me in the water, I'd be looking seriously at my skill set.

 

[Dody]

I still think you were a bit underweighted and need to do a proper weight check and then add 1-2 pounds. And consider Force Fins if you have a quad driven kick.

I am sorry. I did not understand your previous mention of quad***. I thought you were joking.

 

[Rollin Bonz]

I am sorry. I did not understand your previous mention of quad***. I thought you were joking.

"Leg musckles"

 

[Dody]

Going from the OP:


You're a DM and you can't evaluate current?


Food for thought.

If you're going to be a dive leader (yes, PADI DM is supposed to fulfil the ISO requirements for dive leader, as are BSAC DL and CMAS 3*), you should be capable to analyze the situation and move at least as efficiently as your students. If you can't, you might want to seek remedial learning.

With my CMAS3 cert (the Euro equivalent to PADI DM, plus some), if a not-certified diver did better than me in the water, I'd be looking seriously at my skill set.

Huh! Can you tell if the current is 1,8 knots or 2,5? Well, I can’t. But I just ordered a device that will help. Providing that I am motionless. And please don’t tell the BS about not needing tools.

 

[ginti]

Although I understand that you are feeling attacked, insulting others is not he best approach Dody Unfortunately public forum can do that... it's better to block someone than to answer with an insult that can turn into a ban

And, by the way, even those who are more aggressive, they are doing it because they believe it is the right thing to do - they are not interested in offending you.

I mean that I spend much time discussing diving issues with my Instructor way beyond normal training. But I also enjoy discussing with other experienced divers (or even group of divers) that I don’t even know.

True, but when we sugested you 1:1 it was not for discussing - it was for training, possibly with a new instructor. Maybe I was not clear, so I say it more explicitly: it has nothing to do with speaking with others, nor with learning new things. It has to do with practicing and consolidating skills that you (should) already have.

I am not sure that you can define the psychological profile of people who die diving. Some are obvious. Others are not. That's one of the things I hate with lesson givers. Saying that you will or might die based on feelings and not facts. But anyway… Everybody thinks that everyone can die but themselves.

I was an ambulance rescuer, and I have seen people dying for the most unrealistic reasons, even young people. I am aware I can die, and I know there is a probability that I will have an (some) incident(s) underwater. These things are outside my control. What I can do is to mitigate these risks, which is what I do.

As to DM duties, don’t fool yourself. Remember one of the first rule: it is better to have one casualty than two. If you feel that you will lose your life trying to save someone, don’t do it. Well, if this someone is my wife, I will take the risk of losing my life even if the odds are really bad. I would not do it for someone else. This is human nature. And if you want to make me believe that you would do otherwise, I would say that you are delusional and lying to yourself.
I know that I can die jumping from a 30 m bridge to save someone. If it is someone I don’t know, I won’t do it. If it is my wife or one of my kids, I will not hesitate to jump.

I can see your hyperbole, and I agree, at least up to a point. And no, I wouldn't consciously chose to die for a random diver.

So let me rephrase it: if you are a DM, divers rely on you for any problems that might arise. Because of that, with the exception of extremely unlikely scenarios, you MUST be ready to deal with the unexpected. Strong currents and low visibility are perfect examples of unexpected things that are likely to happen - that is, you MUST be ready to deal with them. Others things you MUST be able to manage are: out of gas scenarios, extremely tired people, bad etiquette divers, etc. Things that you are not expected to manage perfectly, but you are expeted to react properly, include: panicked divers, serious injury, unconscious divers, etc.

If, in a specific dive, you believe some inconvenients can realistically happen that you are not able to manage, and that you are not able to properly react to very unlikely (and difficult to manage) scenarios - as a DM, you should skip that dive.

 

[Storker]

Can you tell if the current is 1,8 knots or 2,5?

No, I can't. But you're moving the goalposts. The post I quoted was about not being able to tell if the current was strong or mild (which any remotely competent diver should be able to), not if it was 1.8 or 2.5 knots.

 

[Esprise Me]

I was an ambulance rescuer, and I have seen people dying for the most unrealistic reasons

I feel like this needs to be on a plaque or something. Well-said!

 

[Edward3c]

Not updated. I am at 69.

Some extracts from ISO requirement for Dive Leaders (DM):

Clause 8.1:
Students shall competently conduct the following skills in a manner showing highest level mastery and competence:
— use of mask, fins and snorkel;
— diving equipment assembly and disassembly (at water’s edge);
— entries and exits;
— proper weighting;
— mouthpiece clearing both snorkel and regulator;
— regulator/snorkel exchanges at the surface;
— proper descent and ascent procedures (e.g. equalising pressure in ears and mask);
— swim under water efficiently with appropriate buoyancy and attitude control;
— mask-clearing, including removal and replacement;
— controlled breathing under water without mask;
— buddy-system techniques (e.g. appropriate hand signals, staying close, monitoring the buddy);
— under-water and surface buoyancy control;
— under-water problem-solving (e.g. regulator recovery);
— monitoring instruments;
— surface-snorkel swimming with full diving equipment; the diver shall be able to swim back to the point of safe exit;
— surface operation of the quick release of the weight ballast system;
— removal and replacement of weight ballast system;
— removal of scuba system on the surface;
— procedures allowing a scuba diver to ascend to the surface in the event of an out-of-breathing gas situation, acting as both receiver and donor: this may include emergency ascents and the use of alternative breathing gas supply (own and buddy’s);
— equipment care and maintenance (at water’s edge);
— diver assistance techniques (self/buddy) (i.e. to assist a buddy to the surface and provide support on the surface);
— under-water navigation;
— use of a surface marker buoy (delayed or permanent).

Clause 11.3: To be certified as a scuba diver level 3, the student shall have logged at least 60 open water dives or 50 open water dives with a total accumulated underwater time of 25 h. At least 40 of these dives shall have been completed after level 2 in accordance with ISO 24801-2.
At least 30 open water dives shall include as wide a range of environmental factors as possible to ensure that the student has a wide range of experience. Examples of more demanding environmental factors can be:
— low visibility (less than 2 m horizontal);
— currents (more than 0,25 m/s (approximately half a knot));

Doesn’t seem you meet the required standards from your initial post.

 

[Edward3c]

Wrong. It has nothing to do with experience. It is just common sense. Don’t get me wrong. I do not pile up certs for the C-Cards. I could not care less. I do it for the knowledge and to be prepared. Money isn’t currently a problem. If I identify a potential flaw in my training, I search for the best course to fix it. I spend hours reading and watching materials. I spend hours with boat managers trying to better understand how to identify currents before even getting under water. I try to visualize all possible hazards, knowing that it is impossible but knowledge cannot hurt. All of this comes down to experience Vs studying. None can replace the other. You need both. But too often, experience is overrated as in the case of « never use your arms ».

I think this could be the root of your problem. You’re trying to analyse everything, when you should be out diving to build the experience. Currents on the surface have no barring on the currents you may encounter underwater. I’ve done dives where at 30m we drifted N, at 15m we drifted S, there was no surface current.