Lessons Don't go in a wreck, even an "easy" one

[Akimbo]

Let's not forget that running out of gas and finding your way out are not the only considerations:

Corrosion and gravity for example. What the hell is this dude thinking?

 

[Zef]

There are so many variables when it comes to diving or a particular dive. Risk assessment is very personal and many times based on experience. When someone makes “blanket” statements, IMHO, it reduces their credibility. All IMHO, YMMV.

Yes there are many variables. Risk assessment is based on understanding those variables. Risk assessment requires an understanding and assessment of one’s capabilities and limitations in relation to those variables. Accepting someone else’s notion that entering an overhead with less than half a tank of air, uncoordinated communications, no established plan for when things go awry other than relying on the DM to sort one’s way out, and losing contact with one’s dive partner in an environment where buddy protocols are arguably more important than in other environments, is not a sign that good risk assessment was performed. It does however demonstrate a total reliance on other’s judgment, a lack of understanding of one’s own capabilities and limitations, and lack of understanding of the hazards the dive conducted presents.

The relevant factors necessary to perform risk management by the OP were either not present/possessed or were ignored in favor of blindly executing a dive.

The OP, his dive partner, and everyone else on that dive got lucky. Diving on luck is an invitation for disaster.

-Z

 

[ReadyTo Dive]

Let's not forget that running out of gas and finding your way out are not the only considerations:

View attachment 738698

Corrosion and gravity for example. What the hell is this dude thinking?

This can not be overstated and I personally don’t believe it is taught/expressed to new divers enough.

I once dove through the already partially-collapsed top (navigation?) deck of the Bianca C and in hindsight my air/exhaust could have easily collapsed the remainder of the deck on top of me. The experience and pictures were fantastic but nowhere close to near worth dying for. Huge lesson learned.

 

[Wibble]

In Scapa Flow diving on a cruiser and there was an enticing vertical hatchway like a square doorway. You vill come here Tommy ze diver says the wreck with a German accent. So I stuck my head and left arm in to scan with the torch with a view to enter. The exhaust bubbles woke the wreck and a great slab of delaminating German steel dropped down inches from my face like a guillotine.

Phew, that was close thought I. At least that’s fallen, keep looking around. Then another slab came down! Sod that says I! The wreck had spoken, I backed out and lived to tell this tale. Oh, diving alone as usual.

 

[dberry]

I guess all that scissor kicking going on flushes out any sediment, so there's that. Kick like that in a silty wreck and visibility would go to zero very quickly. Open water divers simply don't know what they don't know, because they've never been taught the importance of proper finning techniques.

That was my thought looking at that video a few pages back... they must vacuum the decks of that wreck! The way they were kicking, the folks in the video would have been kicking up clouds of silt on most wrecks I've been in.

 

[Akimbo]

This can not be overstated and I personally don’t believe it is taught/expressed to new divers enough.

You might enjoy this story. So many lessons came through loud and clear that day:

Lessons - Wreck Penetration

There are a lot of posts on Scubaboard about finding your way out of a wreck and avoiding stirring up silt, but not much on other factors that influence when it is safe to penetrate a compartment. I thought I would share this experience: I was in Navy First Class Diving School in the early...

scubaboard.com

 

[wnissen]

That is not "being fairly conservative" with your air.

First, those of us who dive using bar instead of PSI, typically plan a dive to be at the surface with 50 bar remaining in our cylinder, not the safety stop.

Second, entering an overhead environment such as the wreck you were in, with a single air source and possibly only 70 to 80 bar is ludicrous and is not conservative at all with regards to gas management.

If there is anything in this discussion thread that indicates your lack of experience and training it is the quoted post above. It indicates not only a lack of judgement, but a lack of ability to pragmatically evaluate a situation in which prudent judgement is called for.

-Z

Hi Zef,

Thanks for your perspective. I appreciate hearing from someone who, I am guessing has a lot more experience than I do. We don't know what we don't know.

I need to go back and check my logs (I do love having an air integrated computer), but I did have a lot more air than that, being near the beginning of the dive. I'm sure I'll be able to see where the lost buddy incident occurred in my SAC. I did not do a rock bottom calculation, other than to note that the bottom would be in a depth where I had done 60 minute open water dives in the same configuration that week. So I would have 15 minutes of nominal air, divided by 4 for panicked diver and buddy, that's 3 minutes. Is that a lot of time to solve an issue? No. I really think it comes down to whether you think it's possible to silt up a room so badly you can't see even the bright daylight of the exit. If that's reasonably possible, you could get yourself in trouble. One of the folks on my trip had a video camera, I will ask if they have video and folks can judge for themselves.

 

[clownfishsydney]

Personally, with almost 5,000 dives under my belt and a huge number of wreck dives, I would have had no problem with doing that dive.

 

[Rearviewmirror]

Small world! Yes, I think if I'd asked more questions on the surface things would have gone much better. I'm sure from the DMs perspectives it goes fine 999 out of 1000 times and most people have a great time. I forgot to add that our DM told us in advance that we should not enter the wreck with less than 70 bar / 1000 psi, and that we would be ascending to our safety stop at 50 bar / 700 psi. So we were being fairly conservative with our air.

No disrespect to the original poster, but that advice from the DM is exceedingly poor and continues to perpetuate a culture of middling experienced (or pure inexperienced divers) not understanding risk, the ability to properly plan gas, understand contingencies, and be a prepared buddy in case of true emergency.

I did a couple of "trust me" dives on the Spiegel Grove back in April, and after reading a lot more realized it was insanely dangerous the way I dove (led by a cowboy instructor). Went back last week with a proper instructor to take my AOW and felt far more prepared and able to make judgement calls. Diving to the rule of thirds (back on the ascent line at 1,000 psi), carrying a pony for redundant gas source, and also knowing in advance what we're doing (swim throughs vs lightless penetrations).

What concerns me the most is what happens on one of these trust me dives when a guest dives their tank down to fumes, and then the DM has an equipment failure and needs the pony themselves? The culture of "this'll be fine 999 times out of 1,000" kind of discounts basic probability that chance has no memory, and the chance of some sort of failure is always very real. A free-flowing regulator at 100ft let alone a LP hose failure at that depth can get really serious really fast.

 

[johndiver999]

Let's not forget that running out of gas and finding your way out are not the only considerations:

View attachment 738698

Corrosion and gravity for example. What the hell is this dude thinking?

"Perhaps that.. "hey this thing held up to the last storm and big swells, it isn't going to fall today, since there is no surge". That's what I tell myself anyway. If it is holy enough not to trap bubbles, it should last another 40 minutes.