Does your LDS try and gouge you on trips?

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dvleemin

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Messages
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Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Hi,
A lot of LDS's organize trips to out of town dive locations e.g. the Caribbean. Do yours try and jack up the price and make money off of the whole deal? I really find that that is the case where I live, and I don't get it. I guess I would have thought the dive shops would use trips as an opportunity to develop a relationship with a diver, rather than try and make money. After all, what service is the LDS offering you with these trips? You can call up a local travel agency, or on the net, and get the exact same package for cheaper.

Darryl
 
I think I can respond to this. I am a travel agent ( 5 years) who started a scuba shop ( 6 months). I have a strong background in travel when most scuba shops have a weak backgound or inexperienced background in travel. Before I started the scuba shop I tried to get my foot in the door at a lot of local dive shops and offer my assistance and helping them book travel as a way to enhance their dive shops. My belief was that people would spend more on gear or instruction if they were going to take a trip and that would enhance the dive shop. I was dead wrong. The owners of scuba shops are for the most part their own entity and had no desire to open the door to anyone else. I did manage to get into one shop who allowed me to book some travel but not their group trips, just individual trips. It is routine for dive shops to add in $25-$50 per person to cover the cost of sending a person along to escort the trip. This can be good or bad however you look at it. If you like the aspect of the group trip then that is the price you pay. The escorts do work on the trip. If there is a problem than you would look toward the group escort to handle the situation. That is the chance they take with their "vacation" . On the other hand since dive shops are not really in the "travel business" they may not be able to use the normal avenues of travel booking that a travel agent would use who earns a commission. Also these shops that add a fee on to the booking may use that money to throw in additional extras that would help with the trip like private transportation, a dinner , chartering a dive boat, etc.
I hope that helps.
 
I agree, the shop's Guide has to handle all problems while I do nothing.

You can find your airfare cheaper, you can (maybe) find cheaper accomodations, but why not let someone else do that and take care of the customs, fees, blah.

In addition, if it's a good shop, they will have sent someone down there before hand to actually see where you'll dive, see the rooms, see how the people are, etc

It's the same reason people go to a travel agent...take care of things you don't want to or don't know about.

It's like paying the neighbor kid to mow your yard. Is letting me sit and watch the game worth $10-15? You know it!
 
I haven't taken any group trips, but I have examined a few LDS trips to destinations I'm familiar with. None has impressed me so far.

Dive shop packages tend to use cattleboats and charter airlines. For an equivalent price (often cheaper), my girlfriend and I can get better rooms (kitchenettes, location, or higher-quality), fast six-pack boats or better quality liveaboard, and/or upgrades on major airlines.

The only requirement is that we be flexible, and as independent-minded travelers, that's what we are anyway. I can't think of much less enjoyable on a vacation than following someone else's rigid schedule.

YMMV.

:)
 
... why do so many people here feel that an LDS is not entitled to make a profit. You make a living from what you do. If you feel it is gouging then you are free to do it all on your own. BTW metridium, my friend is an instructor who found another dive boat operator when the one chosen for the trip seemed not to be safe enough. He paid for the new operator out of his own pocket and let the shop reimburse him when he got back.
 
Ive been offering tours for several years. My lds would love to do more trips, but they have trouble filling them. The owner is so busy with the store and training that he does not have time to push travel. Once I became an instructor, I like so many others, began getting "sucked" into teaching for my lds (my mentor) for NOTHING (notta, zip, zilch). Where? I wondered? Where is all that oppertunity and travel that sounded so great when I shelled out $1200.00 for my IDC?

I decided to advertise trips on my own. I advertise at lds and pay lds a commision. Works out great for them. They get commision + most of these people buy lots of stuff just before the trip. I began taking groups to Caribbean destinations (that I had already been to). Being familiar with these destinations gives me the insight to put together a great package. We usually do 6 days 2 tank am dives, a few pm dives a couple of land excursions, sunset sail, and a group party.

The resort staff personell have got to know us. We are always greeted warmly and my guest certainly receive a little extra attention. I always arrange for a fruit basket and bottle of wine to be waiting in their room. Accompanied by a personal note from me. The sunset sail is a surprise bonus from me.

Many people make their own arrangements, arrive on island, pick up books and flyers and don't really see much except the usual tourist stuff.

Here's an example. On my Aruba tour, we do a one day jeep tour. We have a jeep for each two people. Our groups are usually 8-12 so it is just a few jeeps. As we all sit on the uninhabbited northern coast, enjoying food and beverages (i arrange) "picnic" style, we laugh at the enterage of jeeps, packed with tourists, eating dust as they slowly parade accross the pre-determined tourist trail funeral style.

We enjoy having our own private charter boat each day on the am dives. Lots of room, lots of fun.

We enjoy discounted car rentals and and free upgrades.

There is usually a specialty course included in the package as well.

Being part of the small group adds to the fun of the trip. A big benefit is not having to deal with any of the arrangements. Just pack and show up. We even provide an airport shuttle.

A couple months prior to departure, each traveler receives a customized book. This book includes: Basic Island Info, Dive site info, dive schedule, hotel info with photos of rooms, restaurant lists, maps, discount coupons and more.

After the trip, each guest receives a 30 minute video containing clips of diving as well as land tours.
Not everyone can afford this type of luxury. We price these trips according to their value, and of course to make it proffitable.

For the guide, i (we) are working 10-15 hours a day on the trip. Not to mention the many hours of planning, logistical organization and production of materials. While diving, we are either performing DM duties or instructind. This is NOT the same thing as fun dives for us. Don't get me wrong, we love to dive and love to teach, but it is our job and source of income. So for me, if I can't get at least 8 people, and make $2-$300pp, it is not worth it.

So far it has worked well. Almost every diver tips at the end and most are repeat travelers. I had three people who went on three tours last year.

Like I said, not all can afford this. Also there are always people who look only at price. Some people would prefer to do all the arrangements, pay bottom dollar and travel alone, but this is not our target audience.

Realistically though, in most cases, you would not save much if you look at the cost of all you are getting (in the case of our tours).
 
I'm going on a trip with my LDS next month. If I subtract the airfare from the total price of the trip I find that I could buy the land package (lodging plus diving with breakfast every day) for roughly 90$ less than the cost that the dive shop allots for that protion of the trip. However, that does assumes that I have a traveling companion to split the cost of the room with me. (I don't and the single supplement adds almost three hundred dollars to the trip.) It also doesn't include round trip airport transfers which are provided in the dive shop package.

So the dive shop package is probably costing me somewhere around 50$ more than I would pay if I took this trip with a friend and booked it on my own. That's just pocket change. I have to assume that the dive shop gets some kind of break on a group trip, but it's none of my business if they do. My extra pocket change helps pay for the trip leader. If there is any extra money left over, I sincerely hope the dive shop owner enjoys the happy meal he is able to buy with it.

For a single diver, a group trip provides a value that is worth playing a few pennies. The chance to meet other divers from my area and also split the cost of lodging is well worth the extra pocket change I pay to the dive shop.

I don't find the schedule of a group trip to be too rigid. I know that the morning boat will have a spot waiting for me. After that, I'm on my own. I can dispose of my time as I please. On past group trips I've found other divers in the group who want to get in more diving in the afternoons and evenings.

The shop has salaries to pay, stock to purchase, and rent and utility obligations. They put a lot of work into planning and booking and staffing trips. If they do make a little money off of them (and I'm not convinced that they do) they deserve it.
 
No way does my LDS gouge on trips. They make very little money considering the BS the go through collectig money, arrangeing everything from air tranportation to getting the lost luggage shipped home.
One of the big enjoyments of diving is sharing it with others. And groups trips are just the ticket for that. I lead group trips and go on others trips and go on some all by myself. it all depends on what you want.
Seems to me that making money has a bad rap these days. I know my LDS owners are by no means getting rich. The mark up on dive gear is not as much as I thought and 10% of a trip ain't all that much either. And if you have a great dive shop all the extra service is worth whatever it costs!
Joe
 
dvleemin once bubbled...
Hi,
A lot of LDS's organize trips to out of town dive locations e.g. the Caribbean. Do yours try and jack up the price and make money off of the whole deal? I really find that that is the case where I live, and I don't get it. I guess I would have thought the dive shops would use trips as an opportunity to develop a relationship with a diver, rather than try and make money. After all, what service is the LDS offering you with these trips? You can call up a local travel agency, or on the net, and get the exact same package for cheaper.
Darryl
Ok, Darryl... what's your point? That the shop shouldn't offer trips at all? Or that the shop owner and employee's time is worthless?
Just exactly how do you expect the dive shop to pay the rent, the taxes, the employees, the telephone, the gas & electricity... and maybe a nickel or two to rub together for the owner? You know, for groceries and maybe a new bathing suit once a year?
There are others here who wrankle if the shop makes anything on equipment, and others who think instructors should work for nothing.
I know... the government can take over and just give it away!
Rick
 
then what's their incentive to do them in the first place, do a good job, etc.? I'd rather pay more for a trip than have them "hide" the cost in equipment sales markups. I'm paying to make use of their specialized knowledge (my specialized knowledge doesn't come free, so why should theirs?). If I was a more experienced diver and knew how and where to get good deals on boats, accomodation, etc. and what sites were most appropriate to my skill level, this might not be as attractive. Or maybe not - when I want to go for a weekend's skiing in Banff I call one of the group trip companies - they get a much better deal on lift tickets and accommodation than I can. and it ends up being cheaper even *after* they take a profit.
The LDSs here do a lot of "local" (1300 km or so) weekend trips - probably because we're not exactly in diving country :) .
 

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