Does not compute but should I ?

[SeaJay]

Sorry y'all feel that way.

I know exactly where you can get the information if you'd like it. DIR did not invent it, but they recommend it, and yes, they teach it.

I paid a lot of money for the information, to say nothing of the time and effort investment. Nonetheless, I would share it if I felt comfortable. The problem, as I've already discussed, is that there's a lot more to it than a simple technique... It takes a whole thought process change, and a whole dive style change in order to function safely.

Thus, with all due respect to those of you who have more dives than I do, I stick by my guns and respectfully decline sharing these concepts on this board. I am not in a position to be teaching anyone how this is done.

...But I know where you can get the information; I do not think it should be kept a secret, for all of the reasons y'all have mentioned. Would you like me to point you in the right direction, or are y'all gonna jump me for "advertising?"

 

[SeaJay]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Good start. Now all you have to do is get the many books on decompression off the market and pull the many posts by GI that are all over the net. Also it might be best if you did something about the many conferences that are taking place and cancel some of the speakers at shows.

MikeF, we're not trying to block anyone from understanding... You've got the wrong impression! (Which you've gotten from a whole slew of incorrect assumptions, not from anything that we've said.) Those people teaching deco, including GI3, are QUALIFIED to talk about it. UP and I aren't. We know enough to keep our mouths shut. How can you chastize us for that?

I just lost much respect for this board. This latest move looks like sensorship in it's most pure form.

Whatever, MikeF... That doesn't make much sense. Sorry you're frustrated. As you've said, there's lots of information out there from a variety of qualified sources. We are not one; what do you want from us? You've already cut me and my abilities down... Now you're going to trust something that I tell you about deco technique? In fact, you're angry because I won't share? That just doesn't make any sense.

Furthermore, don't blame this on the 'board... Lose respect for me or for UP, maybe, but don't blame it on the entire board...

 

[MikeFerrara]

SeaJay once bubbled...


MikeF, we're not trying to block anyone from understanding... You've got the wrong impression! (Which you've gotten from a whole slew of incorrect assumptions, not from anything that we've said.) Those people teaching deco, including GI3, are QUALIFIED to talk about it. UP and I aren't. We know enough to keep our mouths shut. How can you chastize us for that?

I am only addressing what has been said here and I am only addressing impressions I have about what has been said here. The point some of you haven't (to quote you) kept your mouth shut. We repeatedly hear how you don't need a computer to calculate multilevel dives. UP has in fact gone into some detail in the past. I don't have a problem with that because share techniques is what we USED TO DO here.

Whatever, MikeF... That doesn't make much sense. Sorry you're frustrated. As you've said, there's lots of information out there from a variety of qualified sources. We are not one; what do you want from us? You've already cut me and my abilities down... Now you're going to trust something that I tell you about deco technique? In fact, you're angry because I won't share? That just doesn't make any sense.

I think it does make sense that I lost respect for the board. The reason is the monipulation of information by a board regulator. He seems to have decided for us what opinions and information was appropriate to share. I am not angry and I didn't mean to cut you or your abilities down. Some of us are here to discuss things of this very nature. That certainly doesn't mean that I will deco the way you do. I certainly wasn't asking you to tell me how to plan a dive and I would be really suprised if you were in possesion of decompression information that was new to me. This "you don't need a computer to do mulilevel dives but I won't say why" stuff is IMO, pure arogance. So...I referenced a thread where one way of doing it was explained. Then the thread is pulled?

Furthermore, don't blame this on the 'board... Lose respect for me or for UP, maybe, but don't blame it on the entire board...

Sorry but when UP pulls a thread, he does so as a board regulator. In that act he was the board.

 

[MikeFerrara]

To all,

As I have mentioned before dive planning in general and specifically any echniques that simplifies or enhances the usability of a dive plan are of GREAT interest to me. I have had the oportunity to discuss some of these methods at great length with many divers including some who hold GUE cave 2 and/or GUE tech 2 cards as well as those from other agencies. Through these dives and discussion I have adopted some techniques learned from other experienced divers. Sometimes I hear of methods that while interesting I chose not to use. IMO, they are all fascinating to talk about and can contribute to a divers awareness of what others are doing (right or wrong).

With the understanding that I don't teach over the net, I discourage anyone from diving beyond their training and that discussion is just that DISCUSSION, I will be happy to discuss any method of calculating decompression or dive planning in general. Also understand that I don't claim to be an expert on decompression stratagies or anything else for that matter. I can be reached by email at mferrara@sandmscuba.com or most evenings by phone at 765 446-1306. I guess a PM would work too but we'll see.

 

[MikeFerrara]

ScubaDan once bubbled...



Perhaps I need to reconsider even taking DIRF this summer.

I wouldn't go to that extreme because of the attitudes here. I still think the class is a great class to take for overall skill development which is one reason we are attempting to run some DIRF classes. Based on what I know about the class I wouldn't expect to gain much experience in using tables their way since most of the class will be conducted at 20 ft I think. I would expect that to get much training in GUE table use you would need to take a tech 1 or cave 1 class. Of course not everyone wants to do "tech" or cave diving. Maybe the new Triox class and OW class (when it comes) may make some of this stuff more available to the recreational diver. I can certainly get more detailed info on how much dive planning is covered in the DIRF course if your interested.

 

[Uncle Pug]

The thread I pulled was my thread... the censorship (if you must call it that) was me censoring myself. The thread isn't gone... it is just parked somewhere temporarily (unfortunately I haven't been able to find it myself but I am looking.)

Now the idea of profiling your dive isn't new... nor is it particularly difficult. It doesn't require a great deal of skill or specialized technique. You don't need to take a DIRf to learn how to do it. (But... I would prefer that you did because it is very valuable for other skills than just the issue we are discussing here.)

It is still my contention that computers rot your brain.

How to do multilevel dives safely without one is no great intellectual exercise. I do it all the time. Actually square profile boat dives are of more concern to me... I always make sure to turn them into multilevel dives by doing stops on the way up.

So MikeF.... why don't you post something about how you do it.

 

[O-ring]

Based on what I know about the class I wouldn't expect to gain much experience in using tables their way since most of the class will be conducted at 20 ft I think. I would expect that to get much training in GUE table use you would need to take a tech 1 or cave 1 class.

We didn't touch tables in my DIRF, but it was the best class I have taken..

 

[JeffAustin]

FWIW, Give Sea Jay a break, he just took DIRF and as such, is not an expert about deco; he explained his total GUE experience was spent at less than 40 ft. deep!! So he came away from DIRF with a theoretical lesson on deco, not practical experience based on years of actually doing it.
Discussions online about advanced techniques are risky because we really don't know who is giving us the information. It is easy for someone to pass themselves off as an expert online, and there are alot of people that will believe potential half truths read online and use that info for the basis of their understanding of a certain subject.

We should feel free to give our own opinions, but to be of value to others, it needs to be based on our own experience, not on what we have been told !!

I mean no offense to anyone.

 

[wb416]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

For that reason I have pulled the thread.

I disagree with doing so. Even if you were the thread originator, once other members post, it's the board's thread. Unless it contained content that violated Board Policy, it should have stayed.

Smells kinda like... "I'm taking my ball and going home...."

 

[MikeFerrara]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
The thread I pulled was my thread... the censorship (if you must call it that) was me censoring myself. The thread isn't gone... it is just parked somewhere temporarily (unfortunately I haven't been able to find it myself but I am looking.)

There were some other good posts on that thred by Rick M, walter and others. I thought there was some good multi level info as well as some other things presented in the thread.

Now the idea of profiling your dive isn't new... nor is it particularly difficult. I doesn't require a great deal of skill or specialized technique. You don't need to take a DIRf to learn how to do it. (But... I would prefer that you did because it is very valuable for other skills than just the issue we are discussing here.)

I agree

It is still my contention that computers rot your brain.

How to do multilevel dives safely without one is no great intellectual exercise. I do it all the time. Actually square profile boat dives are of more concern to me... I always make sure to turn them into multilevel dives by doing stops on the way up.

So MikeF.... why don't you post something about how you do it.

Throughout the day as time permits I will post some stuff