Do you tip your instructor?

[MtnDiverColorado]

Do you think that's the current state, that the current disparity of wealth, income and social status is warranted by the difference of hard work, skill, risk taking and general value procurement to the society?

No, broadly, I think its a complicated topic, and the issue of wealth disparity is a real one, and the causes are diverse. I also think it threatens the overall stability of our society.

That said, narrowly, people who work hard, are skilled, and take risks, are generally going to do better than those who don't.

Folks who come from advantaged back grounds of course have a head start. Wanting that for your children is a huge incentive for parents to work and save. However, in my life, I have seen children from very disadvantaged back grounds go on to be very successful, and children who were advantaged, end up in a tough place.

So I agree its a problem, but my advice to my children and to anyone else is still to work hard, care about your job, treat people well, and always try to improve your skills so you can add value to your employer, or through your business.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

While it's an interesting discussion of social dynamics, I'll stick to the point:

I am an instructor and as such have had a meal or two purchased, with the student swooping in as the bill arrives to say they'll pay it. I've also been offered tips and declined because this is a hobby for me, not my job.

That said, we use volunteer DM's and there have been times I told a class that if they're inclined to tip, give it to the DM not me. (The DMs get discounts on dive gear and I will often supplement by getting them a gift certificate to the shop. They've always been very appreciative because there's always gear to be purchased, regs to be overhauled, etc.. My current awesome DM also has children learning to dive and she's equipping them, buying them courses, etc.)

I'm also happy in the knowledge that Seaweed Divers, LLC lost money in 2022. I'm not in it to pay my rent.

I'd also note the folks that were most likely to tip were not always the wealthiest students. I had an MD buy me (and my whole dive crew) lunch once. On the other hand, a corporate VP for an anonymous company I'll just call Microsquish didn't tip at all. Most of the folks who offer tips were younger and while "upwardly mobile" weren't making big bucks yet. Makes no difference in how I think of the person individually, but there's a disconnect between ability to tip and willingness to.

 

[berndo]

That said, narrowly, people who work hard, are skilled, and take risks, are generally going to have a rich daddy do better than those who don't.

If we could see actual numbers on that from any country, we'd be quite shocked, I think.
In politics you don't see many stories like Obama's. Vast majority of people we see have had a rich daddy.
I don't think it's much different in (big) buisiness for the most part.
I don't know if any of you know this band but I think they were on to something:
Diving industry is a good example for it.
If you have access to money or financing, you buy a dive shop or a boat, you don't work yourself up to it being an instructor.
Pretty much all the shop owners I met had the money from some place other than working in the dive industry. I know a couple of people who literally got their shop from their daddy or another familiy member though.

 

[TMHeimer]

Giving someone money for showing that you appreciate him/her is truly sad in my view.
If someone would attempt giving money to me for that reason, I would not appreciate it.
But we are not all equal.
I really condemn this tipping culture.
It is a form of meritocracy, pleasant people get a prize and less pleasant people are not rewarded for their work.
Meritocracy is one of the worst things in our modern society.
The sad distopic world described by Young in his book "The rise of the Meritocracy" is becoming true, and people even think it is a good thing...

I agree with you. Another sad situation (at least in the U.S. & Canada) is when bosses pay salaries such that it is expected that employees receive hefty tips to make it a living wage.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

In Greece, salaries are incredibly low. The minimum 758.33 Euros a month which is what many people make. It is a real struggle as the average salary isn't that much higher, just 1,182.39 Euros per month. Friends of mine who have worked in Greece worked 6 days per week, morning to late. So the hourly wage is peanuts for them. Though by law ... ahem ... suggestion, they are supposed to work only 40 hours a week.

When I open my dive center, it will be to have a fun retirement, build something, and not lose money. So I will pay far more than the minimum wage as I'd like my employees to be able to save some money, have some fun in their off time (we are after all in the Greek islands), and live in decent accommodations. I'll also do profit sharing, so if business is booming, they make even more. I also won't work them into the ground, as happy, refreshed employees means better and safer service for my customers. I open and I close. No one works more than me.

The one problem, and I'm not kidding here, is that I will upset the balance. The other dive center owners will not be happy that I pay better than them. I will not take employees that have worked at other dive centers on the island as I don't want the drama that will ensue (and my ancestors did invent that too!).

If I can't have POS software to remove the tip portion, I will require my employees to put in zero before having the customer sign. The shop policy is that if customers want to tip, then they are to give cash to the employees only. If they want to tip me, I will refuse and defer to my employees.

I expect to pay my employees enough so that they can save money and live decently while working for me. I'm not going to force them to scrounge for a decent meal.

Customers can tip or not. The main thing I want is happy, repeat customers who give us referrals. And my employees give great customer service as they are being taken care of. I think that's smart business as well as a way to not be a malaka.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Philosophically, I agree with the point you're making, Angelo. But when you're in the US or in my beloved Canada and you don't tip your waiter or bar keeper you are cutting their pay, essentially. If people don't tip them, they make (almost) no money. That's how their system works.

I know. When in US I always tipped the bare minimum.
It is "mandatory" there.
What I do not like is the idea of adjusting the amount of tipping based on the service received.
I hate when a waitress attempts to "do more" than required hoping in an higher tip.
I really hate this meritocratic prize-punition approach...
Meritocracy is the poisoned drink which is corrupting public administration, school, university, research centers, manufacturing companies.
It triggers competition instead of cooperation, and makes students and workers aim to get high scores and corresponding prizes, instead of just doing their job.

 

[berndo]

When I open my dive center, it will be to have a fun retirement, build something, and not lose money. So I will pay far more than the minimum wage as I'd like my employees to be able to save some money, have some fun in their off time (we are after all in the Greek islands), and live in decent accommodations. I'll also do profit sharing, so if business is booming, they make even more. I also won't work them into the ground, as happy, refreshed employees means better and safer service for my customers. I open and I close. No one works more than me.

Who's gonna tell him?
'Fun retirement' and 'I open and I close. No one works more than me.' makes me think you have never worked a full season at a dive shop in the Mediterranean.
I would advice anyone who want's to buy a dive shop to a shop anywhere to least work one season full time before buying. Otherwise you might be in for a pretty big surprise.

Customers can tip or not.

It's mostly Europeans that dive in the Med and they don't tip. It's a couple hunderd bucks for the whole season the whole team, if that.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Ok, I'll feed the troll who doesn't know how diving varies dramatically in Greece. Many dive centers do a pair of morning dives and that's it. Where I will be, it is just half a day. I'll have other things in the afternoon (aquatic toy rentals), but will keep myself or some staff at the shop. And yeah, already going to spend a season per @cerich 's advice. I also have a number of friends who are dive center owners who will advise me.

 

[berndo]

Ok, I'll feed the troll who doesn't know how diving varies dramatically in Greece.

I wish you luck with your business, honestly. I'm trying to give you some helpful advice here.
With a small team in a busy dive shop in high season, we used to fill tanks untill 9 pm many nights after being busy with customers and for 11 hours a day. Boat needs to be taken care of, compressor needs to be taken care of, gear needs to be taken care of, paperwork, etc.
It's fun when you there for a month or two helping out and do some guiding. When you're really there full time and have to do the paperwork and have to pay the bills it's a different story.

Many dive centers do a pair of morning dives and that's it. Where I will be, it is just half a day. I'll have other things in the afternoon (aquatic toy rentals), but will keep myself or some staff at the shop.

You're going to have 12 month of expenses and the busy season in the Med is really only 3 or 4 month. May and September will be very slow. Many dive centers do only go out for half days because they don't have enough customers.

I also have a number of friends who are dive center owners who will advise me.

Has a dive shop owners told you it's going to be a fun retirement?

Seriously dude, talk to somebody about this who has no skin in the game and knows the buisiness in the Med area before you blow 200-300 grand on this.
You can run and make money with shop down there, but the way you describe it, is likely not going to be successful.

What toys are you going to rent out?

I don't know who cerich is and if he runs a dive shop but I'd love to hear his take on this.

It should be against the forum rules to call people trolls all the time. It's uncalled for.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Listen @berndo. I'm not going to write out my complete business plan. I'm not going to tell you about my NGO in Greece. I'm not going to explain all the things involved with running a dive center in Greece and all the various pitfalls I've learned. I am going to ask you to put me on your ignore list though. Τελος.