Do you tip your instructor?

[happy-diver]

Yeah I've got a tip for my last instructor, "Give up instructing."

 

[JMarc]

Why should anyone put forth ANY effort with your mindset?

If you don't know anyone who would I'd suggest to reconsider which people you hang around. People around me tend not to be abusive (for those who are hiring or managing) and are proud to do a good work when they have committed to it (for those who are hired).

People also tend to react depending on the way they are traited, act as if they are fools unworthy of trust, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: they finish indeed by behaving as untrustworthy fools; with you, not necessarily with others.

As @boulderjohn pointed out, between rewarding visibility more than value, generating hard feeling for those who are forgotten, generating competition where team work is needed, aiming to fulfill the formal criteria instead of their spirit, merit based retribution tends to have far more negative effects than positive one.

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

If you don't know anyone who would I'd suggest to reconsider which people you hang around. People around me tend not to be abusive (for those who are hiring or managing) and are proud to do a good work when they have committed to it (for those who are hired).
......

As @boulderjohn pointed out, between rewarding visibility more than value, generating hard feeling for those who are forgotten, generating competition where team work is needed, aiming to fulfill the formal criteria instead of their spirit, merit based retribution tends to have far more negative effects than positive one.

I suppose you either think incentives matter, or you don't. I truly wish they didn't, and that people would work just as hard for a stranger as they would for their family, with out any incentive to motivate them. It would be a lovely world.

That's not the world in which we live, or anyone has ever lived, and human attempts to change human nature, are ultimately not going to succeed.

I remember when I worked for tips. They mattered, inspired us to go the extra mile for our clients, and people who were known not to tip tended not to get the best service, as servers tended to avoid them. Tippers got great service, non tippers passable service. One might feel that is fair, or not fair, good, or bad, but it is human nature. People respond to financial incentives whether you like it or not. That doesn't mean there aren't other incentives that also matter (like being treated well by your employer or client, or having a short commute), but financial incentives are still very powerful. In the end, it doesn't matter how nice your employer and clients are, if you can't pay your bills.

I prefer good service, and therefore I tip. I do think some criticisms and questions are valid. While I don't think anyone needs to grease their instructors palm to pass a OW, Nitrox or Fish Identification course, I recognize @boulderjohn's point about a conflict of interest, think it a good one, and there are certainly occupations where tipping would not be appropriate, or could be even criminal (ie, a member of our justice system).

I agree the now common practice of requesting a tip when an order is placed, and prior to the delivery of services is awful.

I also agree that tipping can also be done for reasons out side of just the service given. Young attractive women in many service roles, do receive higher tips. I unfortunately do not have a solution to men valuing the presence of young attractive women, and reflecting that in their tips. This goes back to human nature, and that not every job, is for every body.

But on balance, I go back to my original statement that I appreciate good service, and am happy to tip to reward and encourage it.

Anyway, have appreciated the conversation, the above is just my .02

 

[Angelo Farina]

You’re in favor of mediocrity. Why should anyone put forth ANY effort with your mindset?

Simply because I love my job and I get pleasure doing it well.
The idea to make a good work for getting more money is terrible.
It means that money becomes the measure of your value.
Unfortunately this concept (which I think was introduced by Calvin) is spreading quickly.
It is one of the fundamental ideas of neoliberism, where money becomes the ultimate goal for everything, and individuals are evaluated just for their productivity.

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

Simply because I love my job and I get pleasure doing it well.
The idea to make a good work for getting more money is terrible.
It means that money becomes the measure of your value.
Unfortunately this concept (which I think was introduced by Calvin) is spreading quickly.
It is one of the fundamental ideas of neoliberism, where money becomes the ultimate goal for everything, and individuals are evaluated just for their productivity.

I was thinking I was done with this thread, but am genuinely curious. I certainly appreciate you love your job, that's the dream. However, when you are staying at a dive resort or hotel, do you think the person that comes in to clean your room does it because they love their job, and they get pleasure in doing it well? Or do they do it for the money? I would argue most people, work in jobs they don't love, or even particularly like, but do it for the money. Especially wait staff, and doing a good job, is a way of increasing your pay. Getting money for doing stuff you don't like, gives you the ability to do stuff you do like. Like dive, or go to the theater with friends.

People's value shouldn't be measured financially, I know people in ministry who make little, yet I think have incalculable value. However, the value of the goods and services you provide are measured monetary by the people consuming those goods and services, and it impacts how much they will pay for them. If you want to increase that value, you do a better job.

 

[Aura]

I've never been tipped as a nurse, and I never will be. I have no problem with that. I won't tip waiters here whose hourly wage is above mine, despite my job requiring years of education and the responsibility to keep people alive. I haven't tipped my past instructors, who've been part time diving instructors and full time engineers or IT people, and whose salaries are more than double mine.

I don't know how much of this is culture and how much is personality. I am quite certain that I would do my best every day at the job, interacting with every customer, if I was a waiter or diving instructor as well. The possibility of receiving tips would not change that. I want to do my best always, and I would not want to treat people differently because they pay me more for it. I can't see much dignity or integrity in that.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I remember when I worked for tips. They mattered, inspired us to go the extra mile for our clients, and people who were known not to tip tended not to get the best service, as servers tended to avoid them. Tippers got great service, non tippers passable service. One might feel that is fair, or not fair, good, or bad, but it is human nature. People respond to financial incentives whether you like it or not. That doesn't mean there aren't other incentives that also matter (like being treated well by your employer or client, or having a short commute), but financial incentives are still very powerful. In the end, it doesn't matter how nice your employer and clients are, if you can't pay your bills.

I believe in financial incentives, but I do not believe tipping is a reliable way to financially incentivize behavior that is important to the most customers. Rather, at least in the US, you get more highly tipped for being attractive, fawning, fake, and too many reasons other than (or in addition to) service.

Like in other industries, employers could attempt to measure an employee's value through various metrics other than tips and simply pay the employees that "bonus." I already often feel like a restaurant server or bartender is trying to upsell me the more expensive item, so why not make it official and call it a "commission," paid by the employer, much as salespersons in other industries earn commissions? But it need not be based entirely on sales; metrics could take into account customer reviews. We have fancy POS terminals shoved in our faces asking us to select an amount to tip, but they could instead ask us to rate the server.

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

Like in other industries, employers could attempt to measure an employee's value through various metrics other than tips and simply pay the employees that "bonus." I already often feel like a restaurant server or bartender is trying to upsell me the more expensive item, so why not make it official and call it a "commission," paid by the employer, much as salespersons in other industries earn commissions? But it need not be based entirely on sales; metrics could take into account customer reviews. We have fancy POS terminals shoved in our faces asking us to select an amount to tip, but they could instead ask us to rate the server.

That's an interesting thought, appreciate you sharing. I wonder if that model has been tried any where... Will have to Google around later...

 

[berndo]

I don't know how much of this is culture and how much is personality.

Tipping is a cultural thing. North Americans have a different system and largey a different mentality about a buch of things than Europeans.
IMHO you only really see it when you lived outside your home country for a longer period of time.

 

[Aura]

Tipping is a cultural thing. North Americans have a different system and largey a different mentality about a buch of things than Europeans.
IMHO you only really see it when you lived outside your home country for a longer period of time.

I meant it regarding work ethics and performance. I'd like to believe that I'd be doing my best in every interaction, even if I grew up in a tipping culture. Some replies here seem to suggest that it would be expected and natural to deliver a mediocre or subpar work performance unless the customer pays you extra. I would be an awful nurse if I was susceptible to that sort of bias, and I hope most people in the world genuinely just want to do their best. This thread is creating some doubt though.