Do you ever dive WITHOUT a flag?

[Scott M]

Also, unless you are diving in a high traffic area (a place I would try to avoid) you can hear a boat engine heading your way from a mile away. So unless I am completely out of air, I can usually get out of harms’ way during my accent. But again, if your particular state has a law stating you must use one---then I hope it doesn't have kelp!

You can't hear a sail boat coming.

 

[lamont]

Let google be your friend......

Dive Flag Law

I would verify local laws, but this makes for a decent starting point.

"For Divers in Washington

Washington Dive Flags
Rules for WA divers and boaters

Washington specifies the use of the alpha dive flag.

According to Adventures in Boating, Washington, The Legal Requirements of Boating:

Persons scuba diving, skin diving and snorkeling from a vessel must display an 'Alfa' flag to mark their diving area. Between sunset and sunrise, the flag should be lighted.

Divers should stay within 200 feet of the dive flag.

From WAC 296-37-535 Predive procedures for commercial diving operations:

When diving from surfaces other than vessels in areas capable of supporting marine traffic, a rigid replica of the international code flag "A" at least one meter in height shall be displayed at the dive location in a manner which allows all-round visibility, and shall be illuminated during night diving operations. "

Now how many of us are probably in violation of this one??? I for one know that I am. Most boaters don't know what a "Diver down" flag means when they see it, however, since everyone on the water (at least here in the US) falls under the Coast Guard Rules of the Road, then they should know what an Alpha flag means. I know from being in the Navy and being the one responsible for knowing Rules of the Road and training sailors on them, that most of my guys couldn't tell you what a diver down flag meant before I got certified, but everyone of them could tell you what an Alpha flag meant. Now everyone of them knows the diver down flag. Even diving this last weekend, the people on the dock were asking me, fully dressed and ready to get into the water, what the flag on the float that I had just put into the water meant. I politely informed them that it was to mark the area and to let nearby boaters know that there were divers in the water. Many were surprised to know that I was required to have the flag out.

Back to the original question. I dive with a diver down flag on a float every time I dive, with the exception of the Underwater Park across the sound from me. Only reason I don't take mine there is it is a designated Underwater Park, is marked with a diver down flag on a buoy on the far center of the park, and no boats/watercraft are allowed into that area.

It appears then that WA state law applies only to diving from boats, or commercial operations. And in diving from boats it should be obvious that the boat itself needs to fly an alpha flag since it is supporting divers in the water and is restricted in its maneuverability.

The only place so far that I've found in WA where you'll get ticketed for not having a dive flag is lake crescent.

Also, even in places where the use of a dive flag is mandated by law, there's often an asymmetry in the law where there's no way to get a boater fined for violating the perimeter around a dive flag. The coast guard isn't interested in that violation since you aren't a vessel and aren't flying an alpha flag (and an alpha flag with you on a shore dive doesn't involve a vessel, so while it might communicate to boaters or commercial traffic with a clue, it isn't technically coherent, and the coast guard isn't interested).

Around here, I've found the best idea is to either treat the surface as a soft overhead and always return to shallow water in the shore to surface, or else to have a tended boat with an operator that will use the boat to fend off vessel traffic (and fly both an alpha a dive flag -- but a lot of boaters need to see another vessel headed directly at them on a plane before they veer off).

I never use a dive flag outside of lake crescent, but always do carry a larger (40#) DSMB just in case there's an emergency need to surface in vessel traffic -- but i've never had to use that in anger before.

Most of the time on shore dives, we just surface in water shallow enough to risk breaking a prop or scraping a hull and listen for engine noise and check around you before surfacing. Some small remaining chance of getting whacked by a kayak or something, but even they usually aren't booking that fast in water that shallow that close to shore.

 

[TSandM]

I believe at least one person has gotten ticketed at Sund Rock for diving without a flag. It was a couple of years ago, and caused quite a ruckus.

 

[lamont]

I believe at least one person has gotten ticketed at Sund Rock for diving without a flag. It was a couple of years ago, and caused quite a ruckus.

local ordinance or washington state law, and what was the resolution?

 

[TSandM]

I believe it was state law, and I don't remember the resolution. It made quite a splash on Northwest Diver for a while. I think that board is defunct now?

 

[Scubadaddy]

I'm not sure what the Canadian/Provincial laws specify for diver floats/flags. I have been taught to ALWAYS dive with a flag and my club's rules specify no more than 2 divers to a float/flag.

I have observed other groups around my area doing things differently, one float for a large group, tie the float off to a buoy in the area, dive flag erected on the dock or shore. etc.

My instructors haven't steered me wrong yet and I will continue to always dive with a float. There is alot of boat and PWC traffic on Lake Simcoe, none of which I have any faith or trust in.

 

[TMHeimer]

Here in Nova Scotia most of the shore dives have no or almost never any boat traffic. I use it when in Florida. Pain in the neck to tow it while diving, but it's a must when there are possible boats. And some places have signs requiring one anyway.

 

[SkipperJohn]

For years before I got my cert I've been boating through an inlet that is fairly popular with divers. Now, I've been boating for most of my adult life. I NEVER drink while on the boat unless it's someone else's boat & I wont be taking the helm, I stay alert, know the rules and go out almost every weekend. I can't tell you how many times I saw a ripple in the water only to realize it was a diver and I needed to take evasive action. My boat is 18,000 pounds fully loaded. I sit somewhere in the middle of this 31 foot long, 12 foot wide boat meaning my line of vision doesn't even hit the water for many feet beyond the bow. Best of all, IT HAS NO BREAKS! The best I can do is throw it in reverse. Even then it will take several boat lengths to stop (& throwing my boat into reverse while steaming forward is not something I would do without pause as this would certainly mean damage to my gear-boxes & a tow back to my dock).
Often times I've encountered these situations at day-break. The divers were wearing black hoods, the water looks link black and if it were not for the ripples on the water I'd have hit them for sure.
So what happens after I get certified? I do on a dive with my LDS and it's in the inlet. Around 20 of us. It's my first post-cert dive. I'm just following. The guy who I'm buddied with is leading and suddenly has an uncontrolled ascent. Vis was around 5 to 7 feet so I go up so as not to lose him. We are in the middle of the channel I have had issues with as a boater with no flag or marker. Next week I bought a reel, sausage and dive flag/float.

 

[ScubaSteve]

.....Next week I bought a reel, sausage and dive flag/float.

It really is just the smart thing to do in my opinion (and in most but not all situations). Where I do a lot of my diving, we surface swim out towing the flag, and then descend and anchor the flag in about 17 feet of water. We do our dive and if we are leaving the flag out for a second dive, we surface close to shore in about 3-4 feet of water. If we are done for the day and bringing the flag in, we take the flag off the anchor and swim in while towing it (and reeling it in) and surface in 3-4 feet of water. I also carry a SS and an SMB just in case we are forced to surface away from the flag. I will not even surface near the flag unless I absolutely have to because of the number of boats that I have seen playing "Let's see how close to the dive flag we can get". Other areas around here it is required that you tow the flag.....this is a bit of a pain because it occupies one hand (I am not about to hook it to my person and get dragged with it after a boat catches it) but it is all in the name of safety...I personally want to be around to dive another day.

 

[islandwheels]

I put mine in the rocket launcher on the t top of my boat to make everyone happy. So I just have to be able to find boat again.