Do You Consider Solo Diving to be Recreational or Technical?

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reluctantly posting:

I am not a solo diver, nor do i want to do a solo dive on purpose. But I would not mind knowing the information delivered in a solo class..Having gone through a series of technical classes this summer and seen some of the real life failures, there is a need to be trained in solo diving. If in fact one dives by themselves and thinks this is all la de da they are sorely mistaken, solo class, like any technical diving class ( was there observing, not taking) is one of if's and then's.....it is not just about having more gas...the chance that you planned your dive and did not take enough air ( or mix) is relatively small compared to the bunches of other things that are unplanned and can go wrong. If one is not trained to save themselves in these situations, i really dont need to list them all, you are all experienced divers, then there is where the problem lies.

so i am voting for solo being a technical class. you need to know how to respond to technical failures that are in my humble opinion, beyond recreational training.

with respect
w

So, I hope this kind of post is not the reason you were so reluctant to post ...

So far, the ANDI Solo Diver appears to be the only Solo class that could be considered Tech, although some may also point to IANTD's Self Reliant (not me).

The growing list of agencies certifying Solo Divers seem to mostly classify solo as Recreational, not Technical.

You seem to be saying you sat through, watched, a series of Tech classes, and in those classes there were real life failures; could you expand on what real life failures you saw?

IMPO, I have only calculated "necessary gas" for less than a handful of dives in my life (Intro to Cave class). Other than that I have operated within the basic premises of the "gas planning" outlined in my '92 PADI OW manual.

As I went deeper, and farther from exit, I began taking more gas, but I have always been aware of the fact that surfacing before drowning is very important.

I may be confused as to the "bunches of things" one worries about, but then again, I have leaped from hovering helicopters to skinny cliff ledges in 40 knot gusts.

:idk:
 
I read thru all the threads on this post and one important thing seemed to have been over looked...A diver's responsibility to others...By others I mean, children, wives and other people who may be dependent on them...When you took on those responsibilities you placed them or should have [If you truly love them] before yourselves.....Solo diving, 'rec' or otherwise raises the 'stakes'....Doesn't matter how well trained, how experienced, how well planned or how well equipped a diver is.....I solo dive regularly in any enviorment I want [not interested in anyone's opinion about it ]....I have no children and my wife knew this about me before we were married...She is successfully self-employed....The 'solo' tech or rec. question should be secondary to other responsibilities.....

A good post for the "Individual Rights and other myths" thread. I was single 'til age 40--still had parents and freinds. Now with family does that change everything? That's one debate over there. Back to the topic though.
 
I read thru all the threads on this post and one important thing seemed to have been over looked...A diver's responsibility to others...By others I mean, children, wives and other people who may be dependent on them...When you took on those responsibilities you placed them or should have [If you truly love them] before yourselves.....Solo diving, 'rec' or otherwise raises the 'stakes'....Doesn't matter how well trained, how experienced, how well planned or how well equipped a diver is.....I solo dive regularly in any enviorment I want [not interested in anyone's opinion about it ]....I have no children and my wife knew this about me before we were married...She is successfully self-employed....The 'solo' tech or rec. question should be secondary to other responsibilities.....

You are more than free to start your own thread regarding those issues. This thread is not about those issues.
 
I don't see how you could classify solo diving as a technical discipline. Solo diving can be done outside of recreational limits, for sure. You might argue that it uses similar skills as technical training, but then so does any other dive within recreational limits. Look at the pre-requisites to any of the "solo/self-reliant" certifications out there. Not one requires more than a low level recreational level of knowledge coming in.

The only way a solo dive becomes a technical dive (on purpose) is if the person who planned it intends for it to become so. A solo card alone, does not a technical diver make.
 
I don't see how you could classify solo diving as a technical discipline. Solo diving can be done outside of recreational limits, for sure. You might argue that it uses similar skills as technical training, but then so does any other dive within recreational limits. Look at the pre-requisites to any of the "solo/self-reliant" certifications out there. Not one requires more than a low level recreational level of knowledge coming in.

The only way a solo dive becomes a technical dive (on purpose) is if the person who planned it intends for it to become so. A solo card alone, does not a technical diver make.

Actually, SDI requires a diver to have 100 dives to do the solo diver course. PADI only required 60 dives to be an instructor. I would put forth the opinion that most solo divers have better skills than PADI instructor candidates. No, I'm not really bashing PADI, IR1.
 
Actually, SDI requires a diver to have 100 dives to do the solo diver course. PADI only required 60 dives to be an instructor. I would put forth the opinion that most solo divers have better skills than PADI instructors. No, I'm not really bashing PADI, IR1.
IR1 2, and I would point out that PADI IDC requires DM while SDI Solo only requires what; AOW or Rescue?

:coffee:
 
So, a DM starts his course with 20 dives. I was a fast learner, but with 20 dives I was too stupid to know what I didn't know. I thought my skills were awesome. I started instructor with 250 or so, and my skills were actually pretty good, but how many IE's have you watched where candidate skills were terrible, especially now that you have a couple of thousand dives?

I believe that there are 3 levels of awareness in diving. The first happens at 20 dives where you actually start to figure out buoyancy. The second happens at 100 dives where you actually figure out that you didn't know crap about buoyancy, but now at 100 you have it nailed. The third happens around 1000 dives (maybe I was a slow realizer) when you figure out you didn't know nuthin' about nuthin' at 100 dives, but you are way smarter now.

Skill building comes through repetitive diving experience, not from classroom training. I maintain that a diver with 100 dives is a more skillful diver than they were with 60 dives, and therefore more ready to take on new skills, and especially something relatively simple like solo diving. I can't say the same about more complex skills like becoming an instructor. I'm still not here to bash PADI.
 
Actually, SDI requires a diver to have 100 dives to do the solo diver course. PADI only required 60 dives to be an instructor. I would put forth the opinion that most solo divers have better skills than PADI instructors. No, I'm not really bashing PADI, IR1.

No doubt, but even a PADI instructor is still a recreational level cert...
 
So, a DM starts his course with 20 dives. I was a fast learner, but with 20 dives I was too stupid to know what I didn't know. I thought my skills were awesome. I started instructor with 250 or so, and my skills were actually pretty good, but how many IE's have you watched where candidate skills were terrible, especially now that you have a couple of thousand dives?

I believe that there are 3 levels of awareness in diving. The first happens at 20 dives where you actually start to figure out buoyancy. The second happens at 100 dives where you actually figure out that you didn't know crap about buoyancy, but now at 100 you have it nailed. The third happens around 1000 dives (maybe I was a slow realizer) when you figure out you didn't know nuthin' about nuthin' at 100 dives, but you are way smarter now.

Skill building comes through repetitive diving experience, not from classroom training. I maintain that a diver with 100 dives is a more skillful diver than they were with 60 dives, and therefore more ready to take on new skills, and especially something relatively simple like solo diving. I can't say the same about more complex skills like becoming an instructor. I'm still not here to bash PADI.
I have to differ, with the right kind of training it is possible to greatly accelerate learning, as I wrote in an earlier post:

...

There were many unique aspects to the Research Diving Program at Cal, there were divers in identical gear, most of it black. 'caus there was a equipment list, and you needed to show up the first night of class with a full set of gear. Everyone wore a skin out, farmer-john, attached hood, no zipper suit. Everyone had a neoprene instrument cuff on their left forearm that had an Ikelight compass, a Sears "Waterproof Sports Watch" and a capillary depth gauge. Steel ’72 with a K-Valve and a plastic backpack featuring two stainless steel twistlocks on the left shoulder were in fashion as was a black Mae West life vest with CO2 detonators and a weightbelt with a wire buckle. You had to have a Dacor 300 regulator; and when you saw another Berkeley Diver, you knew who they were. Well … you knew most of them. Then there were the odd-balls, like me.

I was already a diver, at least I thought of myself that way. I’d been diving for more than 10 years, and had made about 500 dives. That’s about the point in every diver’s career that they know everything there is to know. Well, knowing everything about diving that there is to know is fine, but back then, when diving was dangerous and sex was safe, it was much more important to look sharp, and I looked sharp. Besides being 6’2” and a rather muscular 190 lbs., with a clean shaven, cleft chin and thick brown curly hair that fell down to my shoulders, and opaline green eyes, which, some joking described, stealing a line from Clive Custler's Dirk Pitt novels, as being, "both alluring or intimidating, as need be."

My gear was really knarly. Orange U.S. Divers Taskmaster suit, with matching hooded vest, shiny aluminium ’72, Swimaster MR-12 regulator with (gasp) an SPG, and lots of ScubaPro: a triple pane mask, Jetfins, JetSnorkel, CamPack, five finger gloves, and the blue stripped weightbelt with the bungies in the back. And then there were my instruments, only the hippest gauges, a ScubaPro Helium Depth Gauge, a Suunto SK-6 Compass and my pride and joy, (also a cause of the rumor that Dirk Pitt had been modeled on me) a U.S. Divers, orange face DOXA 300. And my BC was the pièce de résistance, a Fenzy. Yeah, I was as cool a diver as they had ever been, and my poor instructor, Ken McKaye, had to deal with me. Exactly how Ken turned that refugee from the Thunderball set into a committed Berkeley Research Diver is a story for another time, suffice it to say that through a combination of Ken’s incredible skill as a diver, patience as an instructor and brilliance as a researcher I found myself, within just a few months, looking exactly like every other Berkeley Diver; well … almost … I did continue to use my really hip gauges and my Fenzy.

Part of how Ken accomplished this almost miraculous transformation involved the use of some truly unique training exercises like the free diving doff-and-don, the doff-and-don buddy-breathe, the circuit swim and the Edward’s Field Crawl. But there is one exercise that is indelibly engraved in the memory of every Berkeley Diver: the dreaded Hand Signal Test. It is as much a part of being a Berkeley Diver as our suits, surfmats and instrument gauntlet. Trust me, it may have been the sixties, but if you were there … you’d remember, you’d never forget. You stand nervously on the pool deck, John Osterello right up in your face, he gesticulates wildly and then stands there, judgment personified, belittling your intelligence and insulting your progenitors as a result of your inability to translate his arm and hand motions into something, anything, intelligible. Well, hand signals are important, but they don't always work the way you intend, as we shall see.

...
 
I have to differ, with the right kind of training it is possible to greatly accelerate learning, as I wrote in an earlier post:

Thal, that training took place 50 years ago. The premise may be valid, but that kind of training is no longer available. Till you get to tech.
 

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