Do you consider Discover Scuba to be safe?

[mathauck0814]

My view: I have no problem with other instructors offering this service I'll pass.

 

[Scott]

Do you think the instructions to be enough for students? If I were the instructor, I think I'd be more scared than the students.

If conducted properly a DSD can be done with minimal risks. It is essentially the first pool session of an Open Water course, so if the participants have paid attention and completed the skills properly, that should be enough instruction to have an enjoyable experience.

 

[supergaijin]

Let's put it this way: people making a 'Try Dive' are not dying in high enough numbers to be deemed unsafe. However certainly I have witnessed some shambolic 'try dives' that do not result in accidents through good luck rather than control.

PADI has the copywrited 'Discover Scuba Dive' (DSD) experience which is aimed at being a gateway in to diving. There are skills to learn, number ratios and PADI Standards to adhere to, in order to minimise the risks but inherent risk remains and there are fatalities for various reasons.

Certain operators conduct 'Try Dives' or 'Discovery Scuba' and sometimes (illegally) market them as PADI DSD's. This is playing on the PADI brand only. Usually there is a short briefing on breathing, equalising etc. followed by a quick dip in the sea with the 'pro' pulling you around by the tank valve. I did plenty of these in Egypt between the 'regular' dives. Again, these have nothing to do with PADI, but plenty of PADI instructors do them. I wasn't too 'happy' doing them but it was part of the standard operating procedure in Sharm at that time.

I also witnessed a few 'extended range' try dives to the 60' mark in Egypt. Not quite as bad as this but not far off either:

 

[TSandM]

I like doing DSDs. As a divemaster, I do them in the pool. You can generally tell very quickly who the anxious people are, and the ones who aren't anxious get comfortable very quickly. I don't see a whole lot of difference between a DSD in the pool, and the first one and a half or so sessions of an OW class. In both cases, the "student" hasn't demonstrated or practiced most of the OW skills, and needs supervision. But in both cases, the majority of people do fine.

 

[DevonDiver]

It depends entirely on the operation/instructor and how they apply the standards. The standards, as they stand, permit all sorts of shennanigans.

As an instructor, I wouldn't do it. Haven't done one for 6 years. I'd only do one for close friends or family that were non-divers...and it'd be one-on-one only.

In some locations, DSDs are 'fodder' for the least experienced instructors on staff. It should be the other way around - they demand the highest level of instructor experience to ensure safety.

Likewise, some agencies now permit divemasters to conduct a limited version of a DSD. Those divemasters can add that competency to their qualification through a brief (think 1/2 day) 'internship'. It's ripe for abuse...and again, opens the most risk-fraught activity to the least experienced 'pro' level.

Some of the scariest things I've seen underwater happened when observing people running DSDs....

 

[iluvtheocean]

that picture supergaijin posted was scary and in my opinion dangerous especially since they were both breathing off the same tank at depth and no pony-- i wouldn't call it a try dive -- more of i'm gonna die dive. the girl doesn't even has fins to help with a CESA if they even explained what it is (not saying it can't be done bare)
That being said - if the Discover is done properly then i have no problems with it... you need to teach them a few basic skills (mask clear, reg recovery,CESA, how to equalize, etc.) either in a pool or calm area. personally i wouldn't take one below maybe 20'. I would prefer to err on the side of common sense.

 

[chrpai]

I have heard of and seen dive ops (won't name names) that have taken DSDs to 40-60ft in the ocean on their first dive. Safe? Not in my opinion. Will they keep doing it? Sure, until something goes terribly wrong.

Back in 2000 I went to an AI resort in Jamaica. I walked up to the dive shop to ask about the free DSD and I was told that I could also do an OW certification class for $250 if I'd like. I had no interest in scuba at that point but it seemed like a fair price for the amount of training involved and I guessed I'd like diving.

I was given a book to read. Assigned a few chapters and told to stop by earlier then the DSD divers. We went over some knowledge and did some skills in the pool. Later the DSD divers came by, sat in chairs for a quick discussion and some skills in the pool.

What I had read and practiced in the pool was at least several times more then what they had experienced. And yet, we then all got in the boat and went diving to 40'. I did some skills in the water and then went on the tour portion with the rest of the DSD divers.

As a non-professional this strikes me as a problem. Is it "unsafe"? I suppose it's certainly more risky. Not sure if I can call it "unsafe".

 

[Diver0001]

If I were the instructor, I think I'd be more scared than the students.

This is my perspective as an instructor.

First of all, I've done many hundreds of "intro" dives. All of which have been in the pool.

I'll tell you how I approach it and why I think it's safe enough when you do it like that.

First of all, it starts with the material and information. Students watch a video, answer some questions, get good instructions on clearing ears and not holding breath etc. and we play with the gear (especially the inflator) for the fist time "dry".

The briefing is kept easy going and the message is made very clear that this dive is intended to be easy and fun. I don't lay a bunch of "information overload" on them but instead talk more about what prompted them to want to try it and to try keeping the intro conversational.

All this leads to them arriving at the pool eager (in most cases) to get in the water and feeling relaxed about it. This is SO important.

In the water I start out in a shallow part of the pool (waist deep) and do two exercises with them, reg out/in/clear and mask partially flooded. I don't teach it necessarily to the level I would in OW and it's not intended as such. It's intended to show me who the "concern" cases might be. The shop's "lead" instructor used to give me flak for doing this because in his mind it make things too much like a "course" but I didn't listen to him. I need to know who is going to be a problem and who isn't. Period.

Then we make a little bimble around the shallow part under water and when everyone is feeling ready we swim into the "big" part of the pool one at at time while being held as they descend and clear their ears. Once everyone is in the deep part (2 meters) we go as a group for a swim around and then do some stuff.

I usually take a frisbee with me, which is a big hit, and the divers are basically left to do whatever they want. I tell them to try to do some of the things I'll be doing (which includes somersaults, barrel-rolls, hovering, swimming backwards etc) and that if anything unexpected happens that they just swim to the surface, inflate the BCD and wait. In fact is was during intro dives that the coin fell for me and I realised that it's not difficult at all to teach hovering and/or doing skills neutrally buoyant from the onset.... but that's another thread.

The pool isn't small so if I'm working alone with a small group I'll work out of a corner so I can keep them corralled where I can see everyone and intervene quickly if needed. If the group is bigger and we're working with many staff then we'll surround them like orcas keeping a ball of sardines together and whoever is closest when something needs attention takes care of it.

The hitch is this. If in the shallow end, I see that someone is going to be a "problem" case then I'll send them 1:1 with a DM while the rest of the group goes with me. In some cases they don't get into the deep end at all. In one case I can remember, the diver didn't get under the water at all.

Problems are all dealt with on the surface, and things like "can't clear", "cramp" or anything else that might cause discomfort and goes against the "easy" and "fun" mantra I told them about means we just wrap up early. Some people even decide after 5 minutes that it's not their thing. That's cool by me.

Some people also have to be dragged out of the pool after an hour and those are the ones I'll talk to about taking the OW course. Everyone who comes is given (this was shop policy) a shop business card that could be exchanged for a free intro dive. The student could use it themselves, hold onto it to cash in for an extra session during the OW course, or give it away to friends. This is also to ensure that the ones who stopped early and think later on that they should have stuck it out can also try again if they want.

Done like this the bar is kept low, it's fun, it's easy and the risks of major problems are dealt with by (a) making sure people who "concern" you from the onset get 1:1 supervision, (b) keeping the group closely supervised and confined in relatively shallow water and (c) not forcing it when it becomes uncomfortable.

Obviously this is a particular context but in this context I think it's safe. I know some intro dives are done in open water in 5 or 10m depths. This would make me uncomfortable for a first time experience.

R..

 

[tracydr]

I've conducted a couple of DSDs in the pool. I think they are quite safe and I enjoy doing them. I do believe it is instructor or DM dependent. It has also charmed people into a life of scuba diving.
I believe it has an overall safe track record, at least the PADI sanctioned classes. The ones in Sharm aren't PADI sanctioned.
Many here on SB wouldn't be here without a DSD.

 

[mikeycanuk]

Depends. Seems like the the ones done through the cruise lines are to be avoided!

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