Do LDS get free trips? how do they go on all the trips?

[Sas]

As has been mentioned, don't think that the organizer is just there for a free vacation. There is usually a lot of behind the scenes work that goes on.

Yes I can see this but why are diving trips different to other trips? Most people I know take vacations that are not run by a group and take care of all the "behind the scenes work" themselves, so I find it odd that it is so common with diving. Though, I have noticed it is mainly new divers that book on group led trips locally.

I am not saying that DMs/shop people do not work during a trip but more that I don't get why people find it necessary to have someone do that kind of work. Though I am the type of person to get uncomfortable if someone changes my tank for me

Think about having to deal with a group member going to the chamber, or getting that late night call to bail a group member out of a Cozumel jail.

I'd prefer to be comfortable dealing with problems myself, rather than deferring it to a group leader. But to each their own. I understand people might want to pay others a premium to take care of this kind of stuff... Though major problems do not occur often in my experience (and I have been assaulted a few times on trips and been arrested once in a non-English speaking country, among other things, so am no stranger to dealing with trip related problems... ). Contingency plans are not difficult to put in place on your own for major problems too.

I paid a fair few hundred less for the trip I have organised for a group of six friends, than what I would have paid during a dive shop (that amount is a mixture of overall discount plus extra features included at no extra charge). Do dive guides/shop owners really do enough work on one's behalf to justify that kind of price difference? (not a rhetorical question, just interested to hear what people think...)

 

[SailNaked]

I always organize my trips for my friends, and I do all the leg work finding flights and hotels and dive operations, charter the boats, even dive sites to visit. there is a fair amount of work and time that goes into it the first time. I have priced my trips against LDS trips to the same places and it seems that I generally save about 10-40% however part of the savings many times is the lodging for my wife and I most shops charge per person and since I always pay for 2 we get a discount only needing one room.
Resorts will give a discount for groups as will the airlines and when a shop uses that to send a rep. I have no problem with it as I can’t get it alone.
I am not a follower and do not want to pay for anything I am not using. many times groups have to allow for all the possibilities. I can be more efficient controlling my own small groups.

 

[snowflake4727]

I have seen what trip leaders do, and they do alot. Their work starts long before the trip.
Good ones maintain contact with all travelers before the trip,
organize refresher times,
make sure equipment is checked out,
take extra equipment,
organize and run pre-trip meetings to go over schedules,
flight info for the resort,
maybe teach some classroom sessions with the water portions to be done on the trip. Alot of times it is up to the trip leader to fill the trip, sometimes at the last minute.

On the trip good ones act as the social center of the group:
Organizing dives,
Meals,
Day trips,
They also deal with the operators, resorts, complaints (some real, some stupid) for the group.
Take photos/videos to be given to participants later.
Provide minor equipment service, or spares.
Go to the hospital if needed,
Do open water portions of classes,
Be friendly with anywhere form 8-40 (yes I have seen trips this large) people for a week straight.


After the trip they:
Edit any phots/video
organize and social gatherings for the travelers.

This is only a partial list.

It is not only new divers on these trips, but alot of people take multiple trips over years with a good trip leader and shop.

 

[rigdiver]

Having organized and led well over 50 trips I can assure you there is no "free trip." And I assure you brand new divers do need someone looking over them. Some "New" divers no matter how well trained just do not have the presence of mind to know when things are starting to go bad.
As an example: Did a night beach dive in Coz with no current upon entering. 5 Minutes later it was ripping. Some were wondering "why" and others thanked me for calling it. Where would the newbies be if not told to get out? Cuba???

 

[piikki]

I think the short answer is that you can definitely find trips cheaper on your own. Sometimes LDSs get great deals brokered but more often than not I have looked for the best local group deal and been able to beat it by looking around myself. Often “the beating” might come from fact that the numbers are the same but for same money I get more services, the hotel I like more, private accommodations instead of sharing with 4 other people, flights on dates that suit my schedule and not somebody else’s etc.

Very often though I have been able to beat the price by considerable number for same destination. I am glad that destinations are now offering discounts for direct booking. I’ve especially beaten prices with offered flights by not being forced to certain dates only. I am annoyed that sometimes shops book travel for the height of the season or school holidays only because they do not mind paying the biggest buck for (the convenience of the) flights since they got free trip (?) - but for the divers the price for the trip nearly doubled due to the air fare.

I am independent traveler but I have “abused” chartered services if it has given me a deal somewhere, then wandered off. I see the of value guidance in some new destinations, and I think it’s great LDSs offer services for divers who want to go with a group. There are shops around which do a lot of work to earn the free spots, then there are shops which basically just have people book through their name, and get a free ride several times a year.

 

[fisheyeview]

Yes I can see this but why are diving trips different to other trips? Most people I know take vacations that are not run by a group and take care of all the "behind the scenes work" themselves, so I find it odd that it is so common with diving. Though, I have noticed it is mainly new divers that book on group led trips locally.

I am not saying that DMs/shop people do not work during a trip but more that I don't get why people find it necessary to have someone do that kind of work. Though I am the type of person to get uncomfortable if someone changes my tank for me



I'd prefer to be comfortable dealing with problems myself, rather than deferring it to a group leader. But to each their own. I understand people might want to pay others a premium to take care of this kind of stuff... Though major problems do not occur often in my experience (and I have been assaulted a few times on trips and been arrested once in a non-English speaking country, among other things, so am no stranger to dealing with trip related problems... ). Contingency plans are not difficult to put in place on your own for major problems too.

I paid a fair few hundred less for the trip I have organised for a group of six friends, than what I would have paid during a dive shop (that amount is a mixture of overall discount plus extra features included at no extra charge). Do dive guides/shop owners really do enough work on one's behalf to justify that kind of price difference? (not a rhetorical question, just interested to hear what people think...)

Not everyone needs a group trip. I enjoy group trips, but I also enjoy trips where it is just my wife and I.

Now days the group trips I do are photography trips. This way we get a boat to our selves where everyone is a photographer, or at least know how to handle all of our gear. We also get to dictate which sites we want to dive.

When ever possible I have always passed on savings to the whole group. If a commission is paid I always throw it into the package to reduce the cost for everyone.

I find that most group trips are more of a social thing, or for groups with common interests.

Trust me, if I can find a trip cheaper than an organized trip I am going to take the cheaper route. I like to save money too.

 

[simmonsjr]

The bottom line is that if you have the experience level required to be comfortable doing it, or if just have an adventurous spirit, and you do not mind dealing with any contingencies that might occur then you will likely be able to save yourself some cash and enjoy more in the way of flexibility by booking your own travel (this is usually my personal preference). However, if you don't feel comfortable in striking out on your own or simply don't want to have to deal with any headaches along the way (and there are plenty of folks who do not want to deal with THAT on their vacation) then it makes sense to book an organized tour. The option that you choose and the satisfaction that results from your choice have more to do with what you are looking to get out of the trip than anything else.

 

[BDSC]

One of the local dive shops I use has a pretty good deal going. If you book a trip through them (that is not a shop trip) they will give you a 3% in-store credit of the total price of the land based cost. Basically they are passing on part of their commission to you. So I'll gladly do it as long as it's not costing me any discount I may be able to get by booking direct.

For instance, last year my wife and I decided to go to the Brac Reef Beach Resort. The cost was $1495 for each of us for the week. They don't pay a commission to individuals but will to a dive shop. So I called my shop after speaking with the folks at BRBR and told them to book such and such dates. The cost was the same to me but we end up with a $90 store credit. That's a win - win for both the shop and myself.

 

[Sas]

I have seen what trip leaders do, and they do alot. Their work starts long before the trip.
Good ones maintain contact with all travelers before the trip,
organize refresher times,
make sure equipment is checked out,
take extra equipment,
organize and run pre-trip meetings to go over schedules,
flight info for the resort,
maybe teach some classroom sessions with the water portions to be done on the trip. Alot of times it is up to the trip leader to fill the trip, sometimes at the last minute.

We're talking about adults here right? I am sure adults can take care of ensuring their equipment is ok, getting their flight info and organising refreshers for themselves. The last point about filling up a trip would be irrelevant if you book a trip yourself.

On the trip good ones act as the social center of the group:
Organizing dives,
Meals,
Day trips,
They also deal with the operators, resorts, complaints (some real, some stupid) for the group.
Take photos/videos to be given to participants later.
Provide minor equipment service, or spares.
Go to the hospital if needed,
Do open water portions of classes,
Be friendly with anywhere form 8-40 (yes I have seen trips this large) people for a week straight.

Apart from classes I am sure people can figure out when to get their own meals, make day trips and so on. I have travelled a fair bit and organising both on the fly or in advance. It just isn't that hard. Or rather it is not worth subsidising someone else for that work.

It is not only new divers on these trips, but alot of people take multiple trips over years with a good trip leader and shop.

The majority on trips that I have seen are new divers. The experienced divers I know organise their own trips usually.

I am not saying people shouldn't go on shop led trips at all, but just I do not think shops can do stuff that people cannot do themselves. Especially in this climate where I have found hotels/dive charters/etc will bend over backwards to try to get you to use their business. It comes down to how much you are willing to pay others to do work that you can do yourself but don't feel like it. The shop I first booked my trip with gets between 2-4 free spots given the number of people on the trip AND they charge a few hundred on top of that as profit. Like BDSC, I see no value in that especially as they are already getting the equivalent of at least $2500 for the work they have done (which I can easily do myself).

 

[snowflake4727]

I didn't say that someone cannot do travel on their own or take care of their equipment, I was merely pointing out a few of the things a good trip leader does. If you somehow take offense to that it is your problem not mine.