Do I really need AOW for diving with charters going to sites for depth below 60'?

[The Kraken]

"Do I really need AOW for diving with charters going to sites for depth below 60'"

Depends upon with which charter you're diving.

the K

 

[Firefyter]

An OW diver with a sufficient skill level does not need to waste his time and money on a worthless piece of plastic that says AOW.

Unless you want to do certain dives on certain charter boats.

It's been my experience that my Rescue card will get me on as many boats as AOW. YMMV

 

[Extreme-Dive-Drew]

Good Point Mikeyjoe-The skills taught in Rescue Diver are absolutely the most valuable of any basic certification.

 

[eponym]

Is it common practice to reject divers going for trips to sites deeper than 60'? I have never encountered this problem so far but would like to know others' experience as I plan to do more charters this year. I do not care about the card I would rather do more dives but the only thing that concerns me is being rejected.

I will add my experience to the replies to the OP's original question. Last month I dove from a charter boat in Hood Canal, Washington. I had never used that boat, nor had I been in the dive shop that chartered it. I gave the shop a credit card number over the phone, showed up at the pier with my gear and a buddy, and made two dives. There was no divemaster in the water, this was pure buddy-team diving. On the first dive we went past 100 feet and tarried long enough to incur a small deco obligation, discussed it once back aboard within the skipper's hearing. I was never asked to show any sort of card, although I did sign a waiver.

My experience in the Pacific Northwest (Washington and British Columbia) is that you are not likely to be asked to show a card or a logbook. In BC especially the law treats the boat operator as a taxi service so they're not responsible for what you do underwater. Cold water diving is usually buddy pairs (or triples, etc.), no divemasters. I have had several dive trips to BC where I never had to show a card although the operator and I did not know each other.

As to warm-water diving, I have this story to offer, typical of many I've heard: I once had a 13-year-old open water student, the daughter of a couple whom I had trained the year before. They wanted her trained so she could accompany them on their frequent cruise ship tours, which always included dive opportunities.

The daughter completed two academic and pool sessions with me (out of the required six) before training was interrupted as she accompanied her parents on a cruise. When she returned she began telling me about her first dive, where the divemasters argued about who would get to take her down, and how she went to 83 feet and . . . At that point I cut her off and we continued her training. Remember that this was an uncertified 13-year-old.

So in response to your question and without commenting on the advisability or ethics of the matter I would say that in my limited experience there are dive operators eager to challenge and delight their divers regardless of certs.

YMMV, Stay Safe,
Bryan

PS. I tell my open water students to take deep diving training before venturing below 60 feet. I give them gas planning rubrics. I do what I can. I know that some of them will nevertheless go deep with little or no planning, at the urging of a friendly divemaster in warm clear water. I accept that as the reality of recreational diving.

 

[DaleC]

1. Then they shouldn't be telling people an AOW card qualifies them to dive to 100 feet. It doesn't.
2. They are in a much better position, liability wise, to admit "can't possibly know how good of a diver you are"
3. By accepting the responsibility of determining which divers are qualified to make which dive, you are opening yourself up to a great deal of liability.
4. The only way to mitigate that liabilty is to actually check out a diver's experience (AOW card or not) by examining their logbook and/or giving them a check out dive. Your argument simply doesn't hold water.

5. Agreed. The practical way to do that is not to set yourself up as a judge of someone's ability. Let them judge their own ability. The other option is to spend a great deal of time checking out each diver's experience and/or ability to dive.

6. Not necessarily, there are other options. Search for and take a class that actually teaches something, such as LA County's Advance Diver Program or SEI Divings Advanced Plus or a class with an instructor who goes way above the requirements of AOW.

1. The charter operators are not telling anyone they are qualified to dive to 100ft. The certifying agency is.
2. That is what they are doing by using certification standards and not second guessing the agency. By doing so they have "removed themselves" from liability in that regard.
3. They are not accepting qualification responsability; that's PADI's job. They are simply accepting PADI's judgement.
4. Not really. As soon as you do begin making your own assessment you open yourself up to liability. The Charter operators are wisely NOT stepping into that trap. They will say that The agency trained and certified the diver and if they are deficient in their training it is the agencies fault.
5. Answered in responses 1-4.
6. You seem to be mixing two issues; whether AOW is a meaningful course and whether AOW is required by some charter operators to do certain dives. The answer to the first is subjective; it is if you think it is. The answer to the second is objective. Some operators do require the certification.

It's been my experience that my Rescue card will get me on as many boats as AOW. YMMV

Probably because there is the assumption that you have done AOW on your way to Rescue.
There are always exceptions to every rule but if you are spending money on a vacation and hope to go diving do you count on the common experience or on the exception.

 

[sabbath999]

You don't have to have AOW to get Rescue, but you do have to have AOW to get PADI Rescue. PADI's not the only option.

No, it's not... it is just (by far) the biggest option in the USA.

Not surprising that people quote the biggest organization's rules.

 

[dewayne405]

Just throwing my drysuit hood into the fire... My wife and I both decided after OW, to pursue AOW and Rescue... OW, was like bicycle training wheels.... AOW was simply learning to dive minus training wheels, yet with instructor holding onto bike... Rescue was beyond anything else...

Now bear in mind, OW certification dives took place in 32 ft of water (60F)with 1-2 ft viz(max). AOW- we went to 75 ft (74degreeF) and 2 ft viz... Rescue never deeper than 30ft with 8-12ft viz...

We dove Jamaica between OW and AOW, and went to 105ft without issue, and the DMs we were with only had great things to say about our level of training.. But the big difference for us was the fact that we regularly dive in 2-6 ft viz... and Jamaica was 90-120ft viz...

Since that time we have logged depths to 130, about the deepest we can get here locally, in 3-5 ft viz normally... I think the best thing a new diver can do is find a knowledgeable instructor willing to take the time to teach them... not like our OW class, which was one weekend, literally (bad shop/instructors/long story)... pool on friday, checkouts sat and sun... We learned very little, just enough to get hurt... We learned more in Jamaica and then again in AOW, enough that we have stayed with our "new" family (scuba shop and instructors) and continue to dive locally and on trips with the shop as often as we can...

All in all training is good, but if the instructor sucks, then the training will not hold... Experience is a great thing...

The card that you get means nothing more than you paid a fee, sorry but its the truth... I have been diving with several buddies who are OW, AOW, and 2 who are Master Divers, and I prefer the OWs/AOWs with yrs of experience... The 2 MDs are basically newbies who just got into card collecting... nothing more, they are very dangerous, and I have turned them down numerous times on offers/requests to buddy up...

But to answer your first question... Do you need AOW?? They told us we needed it in Jamaica, but instead had us hang out on the 1st dive with an instructor, and after that waived the requirement... Depends on the people, place, and how strict they are about legalities...

 

[Firefyter]

It's been my experience that my Rescue card will get me on as many boats as AOW. YMMV

Probably because there is the assumption that you have done AOW on your way to Rescue.

Or it could be that they assume I'm more qualified than most divers with only an AOW card.

 

[Teamcasa]

...All in all training is good, but if the instructor sucks, then the training will not hold...

...The card that you get means nothing more than you paid a fee, sorry but its the truth...

Only if your first statement is true.

However, there are several good instructors, many on this board, who do a terrific job teaching AOW and other classes.

 

[Gombessa]

Or it could be that they assume I'm more qualified than most divers with only an AOW card.

From the liability/CYA thread of this discussion, I doubt this is the case. There are trimix/wreck/cave divers and tech instructors who get denied for 65ft vacation dives because their cards don't say "advanced" on them. From this, it doesn't make sense to assume that a subjective "qualification" call is being made. Otherwise, anybody could get on these dives without an AOW card if they just showed requisite real-world experience, and unfortunately that's not always the case.