I stopped using a dive computer a long time ago and I haven't missed it.
Do I really need a computer?
- Thread starter Apollon
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Apollon - great question.
Looking at the responses and the type of diving you are doing, the answer is that one is not needed, if the type of diving suits it.
Gradual sloping shore dives and nice square profiles are places where a computer is not really needed.
Do a live aboard where one is making as many as 8 dives a day, on varying Nitrox and non-square profiles, and you can use tables, but you will not be making 1/3 of the dives, and it is easy to make a mistake.
Dive the same location, like a shore dive... computer not needed.
Be limited by air consumption before deco .. computer not needed.
Dive complex profiles and multiple tanks ... not needed but sure is nice.
Dive larger tanks, complex profiles and multiple tanks and vary the gas mixture... not needed, but very, very nice to have.
Only place one has to have one is on some live aboards...
My backup is one of the Citizen dive watches with depth. There are times when that is all I use
Looking at the responses and the type of diving you are doing, the answer is that one is not needed, if the type of diving suits it.
Gradual sloping shore dives and nice square profiles are places where a computer is not really needed.
Do a live aboard where one is making as many as 8 dives a day, on varying Nitrox and non-square profiles, and you can use tables, but you will not be making 1/3 of the dives, and it is easy to make a mistake.
Dive the same location, like a shore dive... computer not needed.
Be limited by air consumption before deco .. computer not needed.
Dive complex profiles and multiple tanks ... not needed but sure is nice.
Dive larger tanks, complex profiles and multiple tanks and vary the gas mixture... not needed, but very, very nice to have.
Only place one has to have one is on some live aboards...
My backup is one of the Citizen dive watches with depth. There are times when that is all I use
RikRaeder
Contributor
If any of the above happen, tables won't really help that much either. As far as computer failure, the manual for mine says abort the dive. I basically only rely on my computer to crunch the numbers and eek out a bit of extra NDL time. When I go hard core, I'll get a back up computer or some analog gauges as back up.
Regarding the eRDP; can it plan multi-level profiles? Just curious as I'm planning on buying a wheel for dive planning
Dtaine
Contributor
Proper planning and training are what to rely on in an emergency. I was responding to the idea that computers add an extra level of safety when unexpected things happen. A computer should not be used as a crutch for poor skills and/or knowledge.
Apparently there's a version that will plan multi-level profiles.
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Lots of resort or live-aboard diving has been designed/modeled around using a computer. I decided a long time ago that I didn't want to dive that way because it also seems designed around trying to go deeper than the equipment and methods used is really well suited for...ie a short deep bounce and spending the rest of the time trying to walk up and eek out a decent amount of time. If I want to dive "deep", I dress and plan for deep diving.
Some like it...as long as you want to dive the ascent profile the computer spits out. I don't and I haven't missed using a computer on multi-gas staged decompression dives either.
Having someone else tell me how to dive or plan my dives for me would just take all the fun out of it. I'm not going to pay someone for that.
Dive computers are like cars: they make life easier, but are not absolutely necessary. But the longer and more involved your journey, the easier they make the experience...
You usually get shorter dives on the tables, but that is the price you pay for the money you save.
You usually get shorter dives on the tables, but that is the price you pay for the money you save.
1. You can plan multi level profiles using the PADI Wheel (if you can find one) or alternatively using just a set of tables using basically the same rules and adjusted NDL's. It is not rocket science and just a little effort and practice at home makes it a workable solution.
2. another option is computer based deco software. GUE's DPlan is available for reasonable cost and can be run on an inexpensive Palm. Palm VPM is also available and will do multilevel profiles. Both use more advanced Bubble Gradient or Variable Permeability models.
In either case the planned profies and next depth next longer time profiles can be transferred to a slate.
3. Foldable waterproof tables are available for air and variosu nitrox mixes. They can be used pre-dive then taken along during the dive in the event the dive plan changes drastically.
2. another option is computer based deco software. GUE's DPlan is available for reasonable cost and can be run on an inexpensive Palm. Palm VPM is also available and will do multilevel profiles. Both use more advanced Bubble Gradient or Variable Permeability models.
In either case the planned profies and next depth next longer time profiles can be transferred to a slate.
3. Foldable waterproof tables are available for air and variosu nitrox mixes. They can be used pre-dive then taken along during the dive in the event the dive plan changes drastically.
You do provide a good case in point regarding one of the inadequacies of current OW training.
If you look at the tables that include decompression stops, you soon realize that a 5 or 10 minute safety stop when treated as manadatory will fullfill the deco needs for many unintentional stays. One of the weaknesses of the tables published by many training agencies today is the lack of unintentional decompression information. For example, on the old PADI tables (based on the older and less conservative USN tables) you could stay at 110 ft for 20 minutes. If you stayed 25 minutes a 3 minute deco stop at 10 feet was required and if you stayed 30 minutes, a 7 minute stop was required at 10 ft. In fact you could pretty much over stay every depth and time on the table by 10 minutes and not have more than a 10 minute stop at 10 feet. So in the event an emergency or occured that resulted in you over staying your time, an extended stop at 10 feet would fix it with a prudent diver with gas a vailable spending a few minutes at 20 feet then ascending to 10 feet and extending the 10 minutes stop as long as gas allowed.
I understand why agencies do not do that as providing unintentional decompresion information is a short leap from being viewed as providing intentional deco information and in today's lawyer infested society juries seem to get talked out of the role of the "victim" failing to be personally responsible for his or her actions when accidents happen and blame is assigned. But it is sad as it complicates the emergency response when things go south as new divers are not exposed to the basic information and cognitive steps to find a workable and simple procedure for solving an unintential deco situation.
On the other hand every computer on the market provides the same unintentional deco information but it is not an entirely good thing. Most do it blindly with the diver not really knowing the profile or gas requirements - something that is evident and/or can be figured with a table. In that regard the denial of unintentional deco information on recreational tables does divers an injustice given how many of them go straight to computers anyway with no real understanding of how deco works or how much gas it could require. Knowledge of how much gas is required for a 5 or 10 minutes overstay at depth followed by a 10 minute safety stop would underscore how inadequate a 500 psi reserve really is but in today's litigious training environment that knowledge is denied to new divers.
In the example you give above, the computer did not leave you as safe as you think it did as the computer may figure the deco obligation but it does nothing for you in terms of pre-dive gas planning and even air integrated computers won't solve the dilemma that arises in water if the deco required exceeds the reserve gas available.
You would have been better served with at least owning a set of tables with deco information and understanding them and your own gas consumption well enough to know if you were exceeding the ability of your reserve gas to get you safely to the surface. That knowledge does not have to be restricted to only learning it in a course. What would have happened if she tumbled deeper placing you in a situation that exceeeded your available gas? What would have happened had she went OOA during the ascent and wanted to share your remaining gas? not knowing those answers is one of the paths that leads to the all too frequent double fatality accidents that can occur in buddy diving.
Pseronally, I dive with a computer but it is a back up to a bottom timer and dive/decompression plan on a slate or wet notes. It gets me to the surface sooner in the event of an abort during a decompression dive. Even if you dive a computer as your primary source of deco information a bottom timer and set of tables is a nice back up to have in the event of a computer failure.
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Not true.
seaducer
Contributor
OP, you don't need a computer, people were diving long before computers were available. They do make things easier, and can be a great benefit on mulitlevel dives, and especially repetative multilevel dives, but anyone saying they are mandatory is missing something. There are alot of dive ops that "require" computers, but in my experience they don't check your gear, so how do they know?
On the other hand, who is to say someone who overstays their times and requires mandatory deco, but doesn't do it right and gets a hit doesn't sue the agency for failing to put that info on the table? This is one of those areas that could go both ways.
On the other hand, who is to say someone who overstays their times and requires mandatory deco, but doesn't do it right and gets a hit doesn't sue the agency for failing to put that info on the table? This is one of those areas that could go both ways.
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