DMC Question about instructors

[Toadie]

So I'm going for my DM certification and while I'm working through it, I work with several different instructors. While working with these instructors I notice things.... the instructor responsible for certifying me asks me how things go and I feel like I have a duty to tell him. However, the end results of what I say get fed back to the instructor that I work with who subsequently grades me..... What did I notice?

Instructor #1 - Feels that mask clearing skills and regulator recovery are done "good enough" IMHO - these are necessary skills and all students should know them... I don't think good enough cuts it. This instructor also feels that OW tests should be performed in only warm water (we were diving in 61 degree water). He feels that the addition of cold water is to stressful for new divers.... Once again, in my humble opinion, you learn the skills for all situations, not just warm water.

Instructor #2 - Feels that the swim and tread water skill is not required, then in the open water tests, almost making the SESA is ok....(we were at 20ft).

Ok, I'm not a DM, and maybe I have no right to comment but it seems to me that the skills are taught for a reason, and sure, maybe some of them can be sidestepped or even compromised a bit, but it seems to me that as a diver you should know how to recover a reg, swim, and emergency ascend.

Thoughts?

 

[mrobinson]

Great post! I see that too. My husband, an instructor, and I, a divemaster, have simliar conversations like this all the time.

It makes me mad that SOME instructors are teaching that way. Standards say they can't but then that tricky "in the instructors opinion, was the skill completed" comes into effect. The great thing for you is:
1) it really teaches you want not to do. You can learn from it.
2) you're butt isn't on the line. (When and if you get insured, well.. that's another thread!)

I hope we can all discuss it more too. (Please - I don't think all instructors are like this and even we bend the rules in class, like switching up the skills depending on time, etc.)

It really makes you feel bad doesn't it?

 

[Diver0001]

So I'm going for my DM certification and while I'm working through it, I work with several different instructors. While working with these instructors I notice things.... the instructor responsible for certifying me asks me how things go and I feel like I have a duty to tell him. However, the end results of what I say get fed back to the instructor that I work with who subsequently grades me..... What did I notice?

Instructor #1 - Feels that mask clearing skills and regulator recovery are done "good enough" IMHO - these are necessary skills and all students should know them... I don't think good enough cuts it. This instructor also feels that OW tests should be performed in only warm water (we were diving in 61 degree water). He feels that the addition of cold water is to stressful for new divers.... Once again, in my humble opinion, you learn the skills for all situations, not just warm water.

Instructor #2 - Feels that the swim and tread water skill is not required, then in the open water tests, almost making the SESA is ok....(we were at 20ft).

Ok, I'm not a DM, and maybe I have no right to comment but it seems to me that the skills are taught for a reason, and sure, maybe some of them can be sidestepped or even compromised a bit, but it seems to me that as a diver you should know how to recover a reg, swim, and emergency ascend.

Thoughts?

Well......just some clarifications...

- What do you mean by "good enough" as related to mask clearing? That they needed two breaths to do it or they needed the instructor to intervene?

- Likewise, what does "almost" making the CESA mean to you? That they surfaced with empty lungs or that they did it much too fast and turned it into a buoyant ascent?

As for temperature, people are (should be) trained for local conditions. Around here we train in water so cold that it almost freezes your nose hairs together when you take your mask off. People trained to dive in Cancun would be unprepared in some ways to dive here and likewise people who learned to dive here may be unprepared for diving in blue water where monitoring depth is a much higher priority..... I would say (having no further informatina about your local conditions) that the instructor may be making a good judgment call based on a depth of experience in setting a minimum temperature for training. I don't see a real problem with that and I would be more concerned about the instructor who was unable (or unwilling) to make that call.

R..

 

[Toadie]

Here's some more info for ya..

Good enough = well they did it but there were some difficulties.

As for local diving temps, well we are at roughly 5280ft so I think 60 degree water is fairly normal. However, I would suspect that most divers that get certified in Colorado are on their way down south.

The CESA took two breaths for some students. I think that at 20 ft, two breaths is not adequate. IMHO you should be able to swim at least 30 ft on one breath.

To be honest, it does make me feel bad but I look at skills in a different way. I ice climb, rock climb, race motocross, etc.... so naturally I'm concerned about safety. In any situation you could potentially lose your life, I feel that skills are a necessary part.

 

[scubaren]

I just recently completed OW certification and I feel that the DM did an excellent job as far as making sure I could properly do each skill. I was impressed when he told us at the first classroom session that he feels permanently "bonded" to us once his name is on our card. He then said he would under no circumstance certify ANYONE who could not do the necessary skills but that he would work with them on it "'til the cows come home". I wish all new divers had an opportunity to work with such great DM's!

Scubaren

 

[SubMariner]

Here's some more info for ya..

Good enough = well they did it but there were some difficulties.

So it sounds like mastery was not achieved, at least not with any reliability. My student would have to repeat it until they could do it effectively at any time.

As for local diving temps, well we are at roughly 5280ft so I think 60 degree water is fairly normal. However, I would suspect that most divers that get certified in Colorado are on their way down south.

Being certified in a non-tropical location is not some people's idea of fun. It's not a sin, it's a choice. However, with the right equipment and attitude, you CAN make local diving interesting and enjoyable.

The CESA took two breaths for some students. I think that at 20 ft, two breaths is not adequate. IMHO you should be able to swim at least 30 ft on one breath.

Since it sounds like you are talking about PADI, then I can reliably say that this is a standards violation. Likewise treading water & the swim. These are REQUIRED watermanship skills, not an option!

Have you talked with this Instructor about these things? Because when you become a fully-fledged DM if you actually witness Standards Violations you are required to report them to PADI.

Your instincts are right on these things.