DM responsibilities/another Q

[Storm]

From my experience in Cozumel, I've never found any errors. The guys setting up the gear aren't sherpas, but PADI MSDTs acting as guides. One of them is even a TDI instructor. The boats there are so small there is no place to store the gear and it is more convenient to have it set up. I had an experience in Belize similar to DamselFish where all the gear was stored forward and the divers were asked to don before back flipping. They actually tried to "dress" you there. I didn't like that at all.

You trust them with your long hose set up?

 

[Louma]

I have a little different angle on this discussion. One of my neighbors, a diver, came to me after she recently was on a Disney cruse where she had 2 dives set up.

The first dive she allowed the DM to set up her gear. Once under water, her tank fell out of the BC strap. She tried to get the attention of her buddy, no luck. So she started to give the out of air sign to him. Once again no luck, just a blank stare from this “buddy” (just think if she were really out of air). So she took her BC off and adjusted the tank herself and continued the dive.

Once back on the boat she gave her dive buddy and the DM hell. After the SIT, the DM once again wanted to assemble her gear, insisting that this time he would do it right. She would have none of this; she did it herself and guess what, the tank stayed on during her dive. She has complained to the dive shop and Disney. Oh, and she insisted on changing dive buddies also. Good for her

All agencies teach how to set up your gear. Learn it, and do it. There are professionals and then there are “professionals”, this DM was the latter. There is no reason for anyone else to set up your equipment. You are ultimately the one responsible for your own life.

 

[TheRedHead]

You trust them with your long hose set up?

They're mostly all cave divers and they dive with long hoses. It's one of the few places I can dive with my DIN reg and rent either an HP 100 or 120. The issue you a mesh dive bag and at the end of the day I watch them carefully pack things away and each morning, the gear is rinsed and set up on my tank. I usually walk to the dock for pick up so the alternative is walking several blocks with heavy, soggy gear and washing in the hotel's bathroom. I really appreciate that service and tip them well.

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

This rang a bell for me. I sought out my old DM book, but I can't find what I was looking for in it. Perhaps someone else can find it, or perhaps it was a narcosis-related illusion.

Anyway, what my befuddled brain recalls is a general statement in that book that DM's should never touch a tech diver's gear.

Definitely not narcosis - just checked my DM book and it was on page 71 in chapter 2 talking about supervising specialized dive activites it states "while its not unusual to confirm that a recreational diver's tank valve is open as the diver enters ther water, in technical diving the deneral practics is to not touch any equipment unless asked by the diver".

 

[boulderjohn]

Definitely not narcosis - just checked my DM book and it was on page 71 in chapter 2 talking about supervising specialized dive activites it states "while its not unusual to confirm that a recreational diver's tank valve is open as the diver enters ther water, in technical diving the deneral practics is to not touch any equipment unless asked by the diver".

Always happy for some confirmation that some parts of my memory are still working.

OK, so we have confirmation that PADI tells DMs not to touch tech diving equipment unless specifically asked to.

 

[Diver0001]

But dive centres around the world have for a while been getting their divemasters to set the 'fun divers' equipment up for them, 'as its good customer service'.

Really? To me good customer service would be helping them become more competent divers. *BAD* customer service is doing this kind of thing. The shop might like it because they keep coming back but that doesn't mean you're helping anyone except the shop....

We are required to tell the divers that its shop policy to set their equipment up.
The issue arises because if the equipment fails etc the DM's then become responsible.

It's good risk management to ensure that all the kit is set up right. That *doesn't* mean you need to do it yourself. In fact, certified divers are supposed to be able to set their own kit up. If you do it for them then you're actually increasing your liability exposure because you've taken responsibility away from them for something they should be able to do. This situation becomes even more complex as the kit becomes more complex. IIRC PADI even tells DM's to keep their hands *off* of anything tekkie looking....

Not only this but people with 100 dives come to us and actually don't know how to set their own equipment up!!

And the shop still has the gumption to call this "customer service..."?

I personally think this is wrong as does one of our instructors (surprise surprise he isn't originally Padi trained)

you'll find few PADI trained instructors or DM's who think this is right either..... In my opinion you have to do with a shop that's looking out for it's own best interests.

Would some one tell me the Padi RULE on this?
Not more opinion please....just facts would be nice. Thanks!

No rule. Use your judgement. Keep off of tek gear unless asked.

Second question;
One of our instructors tells us that we should purge a reg upon turning the air on as apparently 'this saves the first stage o rings
& generally helps stop long term damage'. Is this true?? Or is there any actual reason for doing this.

if there is a difference it's marginal. In 22 years of diving I've never seen a 1st stage blow because of not purging when you open the valve. Of all the stories I've ever heard, I've only read a hand-full of stories of people with 1st stage blow outs and of those only one I can recall one that happened when opening the valve. In that case it's also doubtful that purging would have helped.

Or as I was originally taught-just placing the gauge against something to stop the glass/plastic from exploding out in to eyes etc is fine??

Yeah, possibly another urban myth. When was the last time you ever heard of this happening? Based on reported incidents I'd think you're more likely to cut your nose off with a safety razor....

R..

 

[miketsp]

On the subject of setting up equipment being good service, I remember when my son started his DMship some years ago, he came home complaining about being chewed out by the senior Instructor because he went to help set up the gear of a tourist without being asked.
He was told never to offer spontaneous help but to observe closely and wait for at least a minimum signal to indicate that the diver wanted help.
The reason being that this would satisfy everybody, those that don't like being helped and those that do and would be a good first indicator of the diver's ability, always provided that help was available immediately.

 

[String]

The first dive she allowed the DM to set up her gear. Once under water, her tank fell out of the BC strap.

She needs to take some of the blame for failing to check her own equipment properly prior to the dive.

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Watching divers set their kit up is one of the best indications for how competent they are and a good guide for what theyre likely to be on a dive. Id argue that making people set their own gear up is a good safety procedure for that reason alone.

Constantly nannying divers, doing all that for them means they never learn to do things properly.