DM or Master Diver????

[DrSteve]

For my 2c...I did AOW with PADI. I wanted to take a Rescue Course which I did through an SSI store...that qualified me for an SSI MD rating. Quite a nice card as it lists my specialties on it. I'm amazed personally that rescue/stress and rescue is not required for AOW, it would make for safer AOW divers.

Anyway, I'm doing DM now and I have to say I have learned next to nothing. Not to bash my instructors (who have for the most part been good), but what is there to learn that I need an instructor for? Oh I learned about the origins of deco theory, but I learned that more by reading the Encyclopedia of Rec Diving than from an instructor. Oh, I will learn to use the PADI (spare) wheel. So far I have done one pool session and got zero fulfillment from it. This struck me as strange as I am a karate instructor, sailing instructor and a personal trainer and although I got bored with teaching after a while I still enjoyed it. But there we go. Teaching diving is not for me at this point in my life.

So the upshot is...if you want to go to instructor you will need a DM or equivalent cert. If not, then it make no difference what you do. If you live in the middle of nowhere and the only way to get yourself diving is to be a DM then perhaps you should consider it, it will add an extra dimension to your diving and perhaps an enjoyable element. But no matter what, take a Rescue course, I am sure you will enjoy it, it was without doubt the best course I took.

 

[HowardE]

So, how could there be a dive industry without certifying agencies????

People also buy more gear when they take courses. Compasses, lights, better regulators, wheels, computers, spearguns, reels, lift bags, lots of expensive photography and video equipment,etc...

I'm not saying agencies are bad or evil... I'm just saying that c-cards support the agencies... diving supports the little guys.

 

[BiggDawg]

I'm not saying agencies are bad or evil... I'm just saying that c-cards support the agencies... diving supports the little guys.

Howarde: "Diving supports the little guys."
DivingCRNA: "C-Cards support diving."

Therefore,
BD: "C-Cards support the little guys."

Wish I'd said that sooner...

Elementary, my dear Watson!

 

[HowardE]

Howarde: "Diving supports the little guys."
DivingCRNA: "C-Cards support diving."

Therefore,
BD: "C-Cards support the little guys."

Wish I'd said that sooner...

Elementary, my dear Watson!

That's flawed logic, since diving more supports the little guys more than getting the c-cards. Ask a dive shop owner.

 

[DivingCRNA]

I just notice that you in particular take what I say in a negative light.

I am suggesting that continuing education may not be all that it's cracked up to be. That many people can excel on their own just as good as or even better than under instruction. Relying on instructors too much, can often inhibit divers, and they may not realize their full potential otherwise. Some people rely too much on their instructors, and often are afraid to dive on their own.

True that! I have known people that I swear would not get in their own pool in their scubaa gear without an instructor.

But, it is supposed to be fun, and some divers will not ever have fun without a DM or instructor as a safety net.

 

[HowardE]

Yes... and everyone is entitiled to their opinion...

If you are someone who wants to get a MSD, and you really feel that it's good for you, then do it. In my case, I don't see the value in taking the "specialty courses" -

I do see the value in continuing education, like I am probably going to take deco procedures, and maybe trimix before the end of the year. That's not just a specialty though.

I also have said, that DM has its merits too... that is IF (IMO) you're going to be a working DM, and don't just get the card for show.

 

[DivingCRNA]

That's flawed logic, since diving more supports the little guys more than getting the c-cards. Ask a dive shop owner.

BUT---If you live where the diving sucks (cold, dark, fresh water), like I do, getting specialties and such gives you a REASON to dive more locally, which supports the LDS (or, as you put it, the "little guy").

So, $35 goes to the agency (BIG FAT DEAL), the instructor and shop get paid for the course($), and the shop gets paid for gear purchases, rentals, air fills, and anything else ($$$$$). Plus, you dive more to do the course, and the courses open up comfort with more local diving (like seeing what is at 140 ft in the local quarry).

So, tell me again why taking courses hurts the dive shops(aka "little guy")???

 

[BiggDawg]

That's flawed logic, since diving more supports the little guys more than getting the c-cards. Ask a dive shop owner.

Okay, I just asked one. I called an instructor.
His reply, "Without certifications, I couldn't sell anything."

Actually, that's perfect basic logic:

• A => B
• B => C
• then, A => C
• If A is True
• Then, If B is True
• Then, C Must be True

So, if the conclusion ("C") is incorrect (i.e., not true), then which premise are you challenging,:

• DivingCRNA's (and the instructor I called), that C-Cards don't help diving? ("A")
• or yours, that Diving doesn't help the little guy? ("B")

 

[HowardE]

Okay, I just asked one. I called an instructor.
His reply, "Without certifications, I couldn't sell anything."

Actually, that's perfect basic logic:

• A => B
• B => C
• then, A => C
• If A is True
• Then, If B is True
• Then, C Must be True

So, if the conclusion ("C") is incorrect (i.e., not true), then which premise are you challenging,:

• DivingCRNA's (and the instructor I called), that C-Cards don't help diving? ("A")
• or yours, that Diving doesn't help the little guy? ("B")

Wow... you've really outwitted me... You must be proud. Your lesson on hypothetical syllogism is quite fascinating.

You can think whatever your one shop says - the opinion of 1 shop keeper does not make a valid argument, but you can think whatever you want to think.

As I can think whatever I want to... it is my belief that c-cards (for specialty courses) are a tool to keep people slaves to their agencies.

I think beneficial courses on the recreational level are : Basic OW, Advanced OW (sometimes a requirement, even though it's mostly useless), Rescue, and Nitrox.

Now I'm through arguing with you, it's off topic and quite pointless.

 

[DrSteve]

Just curious...how much does it cost the store to be a PADI/SSI/NAUI operation? Let's assume the instructors come "free"...what does the store pay the agency for the priviledge of offering their brand of c-card?