DM Internships

[DaleC]

It's not a stupid argument at all. If you don't think its worthwhile to take steps to secure your job or earn higher pay I don't know what to say. Since when did that become a dirty word? Groups all over the world band together to protect their common interests - it's not a new concept. Who's doing that for dive instructors and DM's?
Anyone...

Yes colleges etc... teach people and may over saturate a market in some areas but they do not do so in such an obvoius conflict of interest. They don't also control the employer and the professional association.
Universities and colleges do not charge thousands of dollars to train teachers and then turn around and propose to hire them for free. Nurses and computer techs do not spend thousands on their education and then stand by while volunteers are brought in to take their jobs. That is what we are talking about here. Yes those employees may face cut backs or may see their jobs sent overseas but, if they have a professional association of some sort, that association usually lobbies on their behalf and doesn't endorse the exploiter. And those teachers, nurses and computer techs don't stand around and actually argue with themselves as to whether their jobs should be done for free or not. Most other industry workers have no problem believing in the value of their work.

I don't think PADI should stop teaching instructors but at what point does this industry sit down and look at what exactly it is producing. Right now it just seems to be engaged in a race to the bottom. Everybody knows it and not to many seem to care. Is that because, like those who teach just so they can offset their scuba expenses, they were never that committed to the industry in the first place.

My question still stands. What's PADI doing in this case, to protect the dive professionals it represents, from exploitation by an employer?

And I'm not PADI bashing. In this case the employer is a PADI dive center so that is the agency that should be held to account.

 

[Zippsy]

Don't be silly, wadedeeper. The original advert was extremely clear in what the position was. If an applicant could not read that, I am pretty sure they could not pass the DM exam nor would they be able to figure out how to log into the forum to read the post. As far as me being related to the shop, I live about 10,000 miles away so that would be a hell of a commute. I just think it's funny and I'm guessing you and airborne are upset that you paid a fair amount of money to get to be instructors and you are upset that you can't earn a lot of money in a dream job. Maybe someone should have educated you before you took all your courses to save you from a life of disappointment.

 

[Zippsy]

And I'm not PADI bashing. In this case the employer is a PADI dive center so that is the agency that should be held to account.

Okay, I'll accept that you are not bashing PADI but I think there is nothing PADI can do. There are millions of people that, for some strange reason, think it would be fun to work in an industry where they spend several hours a day weightlessly flowing with a current, seeing mantas, whalesharks, pipefish, etc, helping people including hot nubile teens in tiny bathing suits, spending their offtime in the sun, never having to buy a suit, never having to even wear shoes, etc, etc. Hmmmm.... I think we have to convince those millions of people that they don't really want to do that and that sitting behind a desk in a cubicle all day is entirely more enjoyable.

 

[DaleC]

Maybe someone should have educated you before you took all your courses to save you from a life of disappointment.

Ah... but if they were up front with the students before training the students might not fork over their money.

There are millions of people that, for some strange reason, think it would be fun to work in an industry where they spend several hours a day weightlessly flowing with a current, seeing mantas, whalesharks, pipefish, etc, helping people including hot nubile teens in tiny bathing suits, spending their offtime in the sun, never having to buy a suit, never having to even wear shoes, etc, etc.

Instead they are given this view of the industry.

As to what can PADI do? Oh I don't know. How about telling the operator that they can't exploit certified DM's that way and to pay a reasonable wage or not to affiliate itself with the "PADI" name. Imagine, a professional association using its clout to protect its members.

Anyways, I know when I've had enough. If the status quo for DM's and instructors is as great as you make it out to be who am I to suggest things could be any better.

 

[vladimir]

seeing mantas, whalesharks, pipefish, etc, helping people including hot nubile teens in tiny bathing suits,

mantas ✓
whalesharks ✓
pipefish ✓
hot nubile teens in tiny bathing suits ☓

Where are you diving Zippsy?

 

[TMHeimer]

This idea has been touched on: It's probably impractical for whatever reasons, but what about all dive pros from all agencies in N. America or even world wide forming one union? While one may be a certified pro through say, PADI, I don't imagine it's illegal for him to be a member of a divers' labour only organisation that does not include PADI executives or affiliated LDS's. This sort of works with the musicians' union, as members working gigs for private bosses all over belong to one union in Canada/US, with union wages being set according to each Local's rules. Younger musicians do play for free, such as while in college, etc., but are "required" to never do this once joining the union, although this is fudged a lot. Such a divers' union may do something to increase wages for those lucky enough to have jobs. I often think of Farmers in that way also. Can you imagine what money they'd make if there was one farmers union- we all have to eat. Probably a pie in the sky idea.

 

[TechBlue]

Okay, I'll accept that you are not bashing PADI but I think there is nothing PADI can do. There are millions of people that, for some strange reason, think it would be fun to work in an industry where they spend several hours a day weightlessly flowing with a current, seeing mantas, whalesharks, pipefish, etc, helping people including hot nubile teens in tiny bathing suits, spending their offtime in the sun, never having to buy a suit, never having to even wear shoes, etc, etc. Hmmmm.... I think we have to convince those millions of people that they don't really want to do that and that sitting behind a desk in a cubicle all day is entirely more enjoyable.

Zippsy are you completely supporting yourself from diving? If so why are you not of the belief that that people working for free make it more difficult for all of us? Incidentally I am relocating to the Philippines so I am hoping to see some of those scantily clad nubile nymphs you are talking about.

 

[Zippsy]

I guess I understand the issue now. I DO believe that people working for free makes it more difficult for all of us. I am just realistic enough to know that the practice will not end and that 99.99% of dive pros will never make enough money to be considered well off. It has nothing to do with my wishes, it is simple economics and business. If divers knew that 1 out of 10 DMs die before they are 30, that it rains every day on the ocean, that you have to wear a suit in between dives and that the only customers were 60 year old Russian men, there would be considerably fewer people who want the job and therefore higher pay.

And Dale, I am back to thinking you are bashing PADI.

 

[Zippsy]

mantas ✓
whalesharks ✓
pipefish ✓
hot nubile teens in tiny bathing suits ☓

Where are you diving Zippsy?

I'm not telling because I understand the economics of replying.

 

[acwest]

This idea has been touched on: It's probably impractical for whatever reasons, but what about all dive pros from all agencies in N. America or even world wide forming one union? While one may be a certified pro through say, PADI, I don't imagine it's illegal for him to be a member of a divers' labour only organisation that does not include PADI executives or affiliated LDS's. This sort of works with the musicians' union, as members working gigs for private bosses all over belong to one union in Canada/US, with union wages being set according to each Local's rules. Younger musicians do play for free, such as while in college, etc., but are "required" to never do this once joining the union, although this is fudged a lot. Such a divers' union may do something to increase wages for those lucky enough to have jobs. I often think of Farmers in that way also. Can you imagine what money they'd make if there was one farmers union- we all have to eat. Probably a pie in the sky idea.

I'm still wondering where this leaves us club DM's and instructors.There's a lot longer tradition of doing this stuff for free than there is of getting paid for it. I guess that brings up a pertinent question, do shop instructors resent dive clubs because of the perceived competition? I haven't noticed much of that in the shops around here, at least...