DM Internships

[airbornediver1]

Tinao hit the nail right on the head!!! Internships are for CANDIDATES who are trying to become a pro. Once you have achieved pro status, you work for pay. Oh...and ZIPPSY, you can rely on me to share my wisdom and save you from thinking for yourself. Nothing good can come from that.

 

[Shcubasteve]

Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free? Unfortunately, there are hobbiests out there that will take up this offer as another patch for their logbook.
Instructors and DMs that teach/lead scuba as a hobby make it hard for professionals to actually (try) make a living. This mentality feeds into the 'unpaid crew' that I see so much in Jupiter and Palm Beach FL. I mean, as a recreational diver, who would not want to dive for free as opposed to paying the $65 charter?

If it works for this dive operation, go for it, but don't expect the majority of PROs to agree with you and certinally dont expect to have top notch talent. I dont know this operation personally, but I bet their reg tech is an intern too- not my gear!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Even DM candidates should expect some type of compensation. Having been an indentured servant (thinking that it would lead to some cool stuff afterwards- it did not) for a shop and paid for the "priviledge" of providing free labor, extra eyes, etc. It is all BS that any DM has to pay the outrageous prices shops charge for the course. I don' believe that DMs should just say they want to do it and the shop says "Okey Dokey fork over the cash". DMs should be selected after careful observation and evaluation. That was the way it worked when I was asked to cross over to the YMCA program.

The instructor did not just accept candidates he chose them based on dive skills, knowledge, and their ability to pass that on to others. Some asked and were turned away because he did not feel it was in his students best interests to put the diver in a leadership position. I took that to heart and agree with the concept.

I am just getting busy enough to start to need an assistant and hopefully next year will need one. Once I decide I do I will begin to ask a few people who I feel would make a good DM and at that point expect them to buy their books and have their own gear. If I'm busy enough to put them to use even as a candidate I should be willing to see that they do not pay for air, get compensated for travel, feed em, and pay a token amount for training. Certainly not $400-500. Under our system DM's actually teach, under supervision of course, but during their training they will prepare and give lectures, conduct pool sessions, and assist on checkouts with set ups and demonstrate skills in the pool. Why shouldn' they be compensated for it?

 

[AndyNZ]

Whatever my personal views are of these internships are, I think it's reasonable to point out that the OP isn't trying to fool anyone here.

They've clearly stated that you don't get paid, what you are expected to pay for, and what you get.

There is no misleading advertising here. We should credit people for having the intelligence to make their own choices - if they want to get a month's work experience under those conditions, that's entirely their decision.

 

[TMHeimer]

Whatever my personal views are of these internships are, I think it's reasonable to point out that the OP isn't trying to fool anyone here.

They've clearly stated that you don't get paid, what you are expected to pay for, and what you get.

There is no misleading advertising here. We should credit people for having the intelligence to make their own choices - if they want to get a month's work experience under those conditions, that's entirely their decision.

Yes, nothing is misleading. But I agree with Shcubasteve: Certified DMs working for free not only eliminates paying jobs for others, but I feel it demeans the whole profession. EXACTLY the same for us musicians. "Come play for us for the experience and exposure, it will help your career". There's no lying there either.

 

[AndyNZ]

Yes, nothing is misleading. But I agree with Shcubasteve: Certified DMs working for free not only eliminates paying jobs for others, but I feel it demeans the whole profession. EXACTLY the same for us musicians. "Come play for us for the experience and exposure, it will help your career". There's no lying there either.

So who exactly is at fault? The people taking the offer of the internship, or the people offering it?

Don't get me wrong, I am personally appalled by the idea of instructors working for free,but I suspect very much that many of this internship programmes came about because there was no work.... and so a few people offered to work for free, and then after some time the centres had to ask themselves, why pay people when there are so many out there who will work for free?

 

[TechBlue]

Whatever my personal views are of these internships are, I think it's reasonable to point out that the OP isn't trying to fool anyone here.

They've clearly stated that you don't get paid, what you are expected to pay for, and what you get.

There is no misleading advertising here. We should credit people for having the intelligence to make their own choices - if they want to get a month's work experience under those conditions, that's entirely their decision.

What I find disturbing is that it is considered acceptable to post on an open forum asking a professional not only to work for free but also expecting that they will pay for flights, food and beverages and anything else that they may require to live. Also with a one month turn around it quite cleverly avoids burnout.

It is taking advantage of the soft market and the people applying for the positions would have to be noobs, this takes a paying position away from a more experienced DM or Instructor, in one month what are they going to learn that will stand them in good stead moving forward? We all need to start somewhere but paying customers also now have to deal with the revolving door apprentices, they do not know boat handling, the dive sites and or how to work with people,all in all not giving value to anybody.

 

[acwest]

Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free? Unfortunately, there are hobbiests out there that will take up this offer as another patch for their logbook.
Instructors and DMs that teach/lead scuba as a hobby make it hard for professionals to actually (try) make a living. This mentality feeds into the 'unpaid crew' that I see so much in Jupiter and Palm Beach FL. I mean, as a recreational diver, who would not want to dive for free as opposed to paying the $65 charter?

If it works for this dive operation, go for it, but don't expect the majority of PROs to agree with you and certinally dont expect to have top notch talent. I dont know this operation personally, but I bet their reg tech is an intern too- not my gear!

You might consider it unfortunate, but there are still a number of clubs doing training out there. It is, after all, how dive training started. Our club has been training people to dive for over 50 years, we aren't going to stop now... On the other hand, we also don't train enough people to be a particular threat to anybody's income, as we only run two courses a year (for Open Water, at least)
I don't believe this has much to do with the dive operation in question, though. It looks like they are making money off of free labour, which is anything but what the clubs do...

 

[ding dang]

this is honestly hilarious. the first two replies on this thread had me DYING

 

[Lead_carrier]

This sort of thing may happen more than we know.

I did some diving in south Florida (near Pompano) a few years ago and was surprised when the skipper told the customers that the DM was unpaid and was working only for tips, so please be generous.

Wow, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to get to the truth. Most DM's on working boats that I know are unpaid. Working only for tips and diving. I've even tried getting a deal like that on a couple of boats but haven't been able to pull it off yet. Unfortunately, I can't afford to take a month off from my job or I'd be very tempted to apply.

The next time you take a diver charter, just start a conversation with the DM. During that time ask what his pay is. Some do make a small wage per customer or trip but I think many will be surprised on how many don't make anything but tips.