DM Expectations...

[diverdowndh]

I got similar comments when I had "The Talk". My instructor told me he would just rather that I have on equipment that his shop sells or specializes in so when students see or ask about the equipment I have, it is of the order of what the shop sells. I can agree with this especially since he said, in a very up front manner, I wouldn't make very much money - I could work for X dollars an hour or 1.5X dollars an hour in equipment money, to help me with that suggestion. Keep in mind I said suggestion because it wasn't presented as a requirement. I can totally agree that if I am to represent his shop I should at least look like a patron to the goods for sale there! I am not embarking on this for money... I said it earlier in this thread. But new equipment makes me excited anyway and if that is in any way something that I need to do then I'm all for it. Note - I don't have that much invested in my bc/reg, bought both used so I welcome the idea of new stuff <grin>.
This thread just keeps on going, I am in awe at the responses!

 

[HydroAuto]

The thing is that I bought all new equipment w/in the past 3 years. Narrowing a students vision of what is available in the marketplace is not a good start. It will only lead to the sort of bickering we see regarding agencies/brands/practices. In my opinion, DMs and Instructors should be well versed in all (current) equipment in the marketplace, and if they don't know about it, don't be afraid to say so and tell the student that they will look into it and get back to them.

Seriously, what difference is it going to make over which brand BCD, reg, computer is used? Most people taking classes are renting the shops equipment right? It is the instructors duty to be familiar with the equipment the shop is renting, and to be able to familiarize the students with the equipment that they are using. What happens when the person gets out of class and goes diving with someone with different gear than their own? Isn't one of the first steps taught in open water to be familiar with your buddies gear before you enter the water? Where are the air dumps, quick releases, weights etc?

Additionally, this is a requirement for their Divemaster program, not Instructor level certifications. I realize that DMs assist in classes, but requiring the shelling out another $1000-$1500 after paying up to $500 for the course & materials is unreasonable, particularly when the equipment currently owned is modern, safe & maintained. There was no talk of any sort of compensation aside from discounted equipment. Since I already have basically new equipment, that is no incentive to me, especially since I look to the DM class as further instruction & experience for me.

If I'm to the point where I'm looking into DM, I already have all the equipment I am going to need, aside from specialty gear like rebreathers, dry suits an propulsion gear. Personally, it is my opinion that this is a load of tripe.

 

[RiverRat]

Then came the bit I think is very strange. These words came out of the guys mouth. "As part of this course we require you use only equipment that our shop sells. You will not be allowed to be in front of students "out of uniform".

Too funny. During my "talk" I was told the business was like Amway "but you don't have to hide stuff" before your pitch.

What these desperate shops will do to try and sell stuff. It is like an MLM to some degree. Suck 'em in. Make 'em DM's. Now tell them to buy all new gear. Now sell them on IDC. More new gear. Now you become a part on the system. Work for free and push gear for the shop. Get burned out after 2 years and quit and then go around the internet *****ing about it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Many shops have similar requirements, but this one seems a little extreme to me.

The shop where I work wants you in the same equipment whenever possible, but they make it easy for you in that you can use the same rental equipment (for free) that the students use. Thus, you don't have to own a single scrap of their stuff to be "in uniform."

That works easily for the confined water dives. For the open water dives, some of us will use our own stuff. Although they prefer to have us in shop sold gear, they are not anal about it, and invariably someone is wearing something that is not sold through the shop.

The general idea is that many of the students will go out soon and make purchases. They will look to the professionals for leadership. The equipment you wear is essentially advertising for whoever sells that brand. I think it is reasonable for a shop to want its instructors and DM's only advertising their gear, but I think the policy you describe here, requiring you to purchase all new equipment within that length of time, is taking it too far.

 

[The_DivePirate]

I just finished my DM course, and all I had too pay for was my books and registration fees. The instructor that accepted me for the candidacy had me interview with his present DM's that were working on their instructor status. After talking with his DM's and feeling comfortable with the descision of accepting me as a cantidate, it was game on! I had too work with four classes of eight japanese students for a 72 hr all inclusive weekend at his house on the hood canal. All my meals and housing were paid. During that time I worked with the students on log books, land nav., any and all types of q's ranging from what next to how long I had been diving and so on. I had too deal with a couple of students that were not sure about if scuba was for them or not, and issues of fear.(counselor) dealt with them on surface skills and baby sitting them while the instructors were down with other students. I helped with making sure gear was set up properly(saftey inspector) cleaned the dive locker after the day was out.(janitor) and filled tanks.(shop operations) Helped with meals.(cook) Made sure that lights out meant lights out.(chaperone) (these were college kids) While doing all this had my bookwork too boot. This may sound quite hectic, but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything in the world!!! The gratification you get from helping someone into a sport you are so passionate about is priceless. Because if you are not passionate about diving, what are you thinking? Your not here for the $$$$, it's what you enjoy. Since my certification has been awarded, if I decide too stay on as a DM, the pay will be, $200.00 a class and my instructor will carry the insurance as well as cover the the meals and housing in a divers dream house. Did I meantion that the majority of the students are young females? :no Next year I plan on working off my instructor cert. How could life get any better?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You do not say where you are from but this kind of stuff is the reason that I'm an independent DM. I stopped being affiliated with one shop for reasons like this and the fact that as I also am into technical diving I choose to dive the same configuration in open water all the time. Whenever possible of course. On vacation I may not use doubles but I am in BPW and long hose. I have a jacket style bc and use it with a conventional octo set up in the pool but on OW dives At least for the last 5 classes I've assisted with for two different instructors(PADI and NAUI) I've been in doubles with BPW and long hose. My NAUI instructor actually encourages it because he's also my tech instructor. The more time in doubles the better. Even if it's not the brand he sells (my stuff is DSS, he sells dive rite) I have enough accessories from him that he was not going to make me go out and buy all new gear when I already had two BPW set ups, 3 regs, etc. This sounds like a shop that is desperate for business to the point that they are charging you to be a walking billboard for them.:no Go to them and say fine when with you I'll use your rental gear, When diving for myself I'll use my stuff. If they say no, find another shop and tell them to go stuff it. This is the kind of crap that creates DM's who may be very good at what they do but get disgusted with the politics and say screw it. If you were their employee it would be different but you are paying them. This is the big catch for me. It's also why certain agency policies and marketing practices are pushing me away from that agency. It's all about making money for the agency and shop. Screw the DM. It's really not a professional rating like it should be. It's a way of getting more money and cheap labor. It's designed to push DM's into instructor courses to try and recoup some of the capital they've invested in training and bring in even more money for the agency.

I've been saying this for awhile- If we have to pay insurance, dues, have the latest gear, etc. why are we treated in many cases like slaves with no pay, maybe free air, and so-called "key man" discounts that are worthless if we don't need any new gear? And is a discount of 15% really anything if the original markup is 150-200% or more and the guy on the street who does nothing to help out gets 10% off. A real discount would be 10-15% over COST for those of us who bust our asses, volunteer time, resources, skills, and do our best to make sure the students come back alive.

Problem is it will never change until we can get together and say in one voice we are pro's, we expect and demand compensation and encourage DM's to be to do the same. I myself am guilty of perpetuating this abuse by continuing to work for some of the same things. But if I want to dive and even have a chance of making a few bucks it's a necessity for now. But the thing is there are courses we can teach without a shop or instructor and with a little creativity and the right contacts it's possible to make a little cash for ourselves. PM me if you want to know how? I have a few things in the works that in the next couple months will be paying off. This is not a pitch to sell something. I'll gladly tell anyone how I'm putting my own programs together that while not getting rich will give enough to cover some of the costs of being an indentured servant, I mean DM. In the meantime don't give in to the hype and BS about what they want from you. Again you are paying them to teach you, not abuse you.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I just finished my DM course, and all I had too pay for was my books and registration fees. The instructor that accepted me for the candidacy had me interview with his present DM's that were working on their instructor status. After talking with his DM's and feeling comfortable with the descision of accepting me as a cantidate, it was game on! I had too work with four classes of eight japanese students for a 72 hr all inclusive weekend at his house on the hood canal. All my meals and housing were paid. During that time I worked with the students on log books, land nav., any and all types of q's ranging from what next to how long I had been diving and so on. I had too deal with a couple of students that were not sure about if scuba was for them or not, and issues of fear.(counselor) dealt with them on surface skills and baby sitting them while the instructors were down with other students. I helped with making sure gear was set up properly(saftey inspector) cleaned the dive locker after the day was out.(janitor) and filled tanks.(shop operations) Helped with meals.(cook) Made sure that lights out meant lights out.(chaperone) (these were college kids) While doing all this had my bookwork too boot. This may sound quite hectic, but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything in the world!!! The gratification you get from helping someone into a sport you are so passionate about is priceless. Because if you are not passionate about diving, what are you thinking? Your not here for the $$$$, it's what you enjoy. Since my certification has been awarded, if I decide too stay on as a DM, the pay will be, $200.00 a class and my instructor will carry the insurance as well as cover the the meals and housing in a divers dream house. Did I meantion that the majority of the students are young females? :no Next year I plan on working off my instructor cert. How could life get any better?

NOW THAT'S A FAIR DEAL ,IMO!!

 

[surfsidedav]

I'm in the final stages of my DiveCon course now. Been working on it for about a year now. The reason it's taken so long is mainly the pesky 9-5 that pays for all this comes first. Because I'm doing this strictly for the enjoyment of it and not the money, if I finish next week great, if next month, that's fine too. As far as being a DM slave, I addressed that before I even signed up for the class. The shop owner/instructor informed me that his shop didn't work like that, if one person toted tanks, everyone toted tanks, no one was above helping out, instructors included. Since then, I've been on many trips and on every one it is a group effort. He does like for everyone associated with the shop to wear shop gear, which is understandable. This wasn't a real concern duing the acedemic and sales floor portions of training, only when I started becoming more active with students and classes. But even when I started dressing the part and purchased a whole new gear set up, I got the shop discount (which ran circles around leisure pro) so I couldn't complain. He made a little money and I got new gear at a great price, so everyone was happy. The long term goal now is finish DiveCon, log more dives, assist with more classes, then go for instructor. There has been some work involved, but overall it's been an enjoyable experience.

 

[Joe-Diver]

Did I meantion that the majority of the students are young females?

Heck, I think I'd PAY a fee to help with that....

 

[PhilEllis]

Seriously, what difference is it going to make over which brand BCD, reg, computer is used? Most people taking classes are renting the shops equipment right? It is the instructors duty to be familiar with the equipment the shop is renting, and to be able to familiarize the students with the equipment that they are using. What happens when the person gets out of class and goes diving with someone with different gear than their own? Isn't one of the first steps taught in open water to be familiar with your buddies gear before you enter the water? Where are the air dumps, quick releases, weights etc?

Additionally, this is a requirement for their Divemaster program, not Instructor level certifications. I realize that DMs assist in classes, but requiring the shelling out another $1000-$1500 after paying up to $500 for the course & materials is unreasonable, particularly when the equipment currently owned is modern, safe & maintained. There was no talk of any sort of compensation aside from discounted equipment. Since I already have basically new equipment, that is no incentive to me, especially since I look to the DM class as further instruction & experience for me.

If I'm to the point where I'm looking into DM, I already have all the equipment I am going to need, aside from specialty gear like rebreathers, dry suits an propulsion gear. Personally, it is my opinion that this is a load of tripe.

The role of the dive shop owner is to sell scuba equipment. That is why they have all of that inventory. While you should be free to dive recreationally in whatever gear you choose, while working with the shops customers, I think you should expect to use and promote the things THEY sell. They are not in the business of highlighting gear sold by their competitor.

We require divemasters and instructors to use the gear we designate. Why? Because we sell scuba gear. We are different in that we offer to PROVIDE the equipment to all of the professionals. Many of them already own what we sell and if they choose, they are free to wear it. However, they are also welcome to leave their personal gear in the bag and use the stuff we designate. We have NEVER required anyone to buy anything to work for us or participate in any of our programs. That being said.....we reserve the right to provide suitable gear that matches our marketing objectives.

Phil Ellis