Aqua-Andy
Contributor
Looks good but the only problem I see is the lamp is only rated at 75 Lumens and the beam angle is 120 degrees.
DIY: NiteRider Lights Repair
- Thread starter ScubaMarc
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I did a test to see how long the lights would last, which took much longer than anticipated. First let me state that my batteries appear to be in very poor shape in in need of replacement. Even in this poor state, LED's far exceeded my expectations (hence the lengthy test), but when I replaced the one remaining HID bulb for a comparison test it provided less than an hours worth of useful light.
I did not have on hand a light meter to definitively determine light output, but I used a simple standard. The light was placed on a bench in a corner of a 32'x36' shop with no windows or other external light sources. So long as there was enough light produced that I could easily navigate around the shop I considered it usable. Once the light dimmed enough that I could no longer easily navigate, I ended the test. I didn't have my meters on hand (they were at work) when I began the test (didn't expect it to last so long) but did take voltage and current readings towards the end of the first test and throughout the second test. This data is available but likely of no interest to most.
It should be noted that the flood light is dim-able so it will dim with reduced voltage while the spot light is not dim-able so it will be a more constant light until it fails.
The first test consisted of turning on both flood and spot lights together. They lasted 1:25 until the flood began to dim and within 10 minutes the voltage dropped enough that the flood no longer provided any usable light. the test then continued with the spot light alone. At approximately 42 hours the spot light began to noticeably dim but still provided usable light. At 62 hours it was dim enough that the light was no longer usable. At approximately 15 hours I took temperature measurements and found the case temperature rise was 2C while the face of the lens was 5C.
The battery was recharged for 15 hours for the second test.
The second test used the flood light only and it lasted 153 hours until it failed to provide usable light. Then without recharging I switched to spot light only and was able to get another 1:10 of usable light. At approximately 104 hours it was dim enough that I could briefly look directly at the light from arms length without seeing the resulting 'blue spots'. The case temp rise on this test was also 2C while the lens temp rise reached a whooping 8C. The light was not immersed in cooling water for either test.
The spot light had a higher current draw, but as it is not supposed to be dim-able it actually produced a brighter light at voltages too low to be usable with the flood light, but then quickly exhausted the remaining reserves then quickly dimmed.
New batteries would surely extend the life, but unless someone was unfortunate enough to be rein-acting the movie Sanctum I doubt that any of us will ever come close to exceeding this capability.
This basically just confirms what we already know... The HID lights waste an enormous amount of energy as heat.
Next I'll look into new batteries and a charger. The light didn't come with the original charger so after I select new batteries I'll also get an appropriate charger. It would seem logical to use this opportunity to convert to lithium batteries, however there are still some advantages to NiMH batteries, so I'll research this further before deciding.
I'll add to this post any further info.
I hope this helps anybody trying to rejuvenate their old NiteRider.
Todd
I did not have on hand a light meter to definitively determine light output, but I used a simple standard. The light was placed on a bench in a corner of a 32'x36' shop with no windows or other external light sources. So long as there was enough light produced that I could easily navigate around the shop I considered it usable. Once the light dimmed enough that I could no longer easily navigate, I ended the test. I didn't have my meters on hand (they were at work) when I began the test (didn't expect it to last so long) but did take voltage and current readings towards the end of the first test and throughout the second test. This data is available but likely of no interest to most.
It should be noted that the flood light is dim-able so it will dim with reduced voltage while the spot light is not dim-able so it will be a more constant light until it fails.
The first test consisted of turning on both flood and spot lights together. They lasted 1:25 until the flood began to dim and within 10 minutes the voltage dropped enough that the flood no longer provided any usable light. the test then continued with the spot light alone. At approximately 42 hours the spot light began to noticeably dim but still provided usable light. At 62 hours it was dim enough that the light was no longer usable. At approximately 15 hours I took temperature measurements and found the case temperature rise was 2C while the face of the lens was 5C.
The battery was recharged for 15 hours for the second test.
The second test used the flood light only and it lasted 153 hours until it failed to provide usable light. Then without recharging I switched to spot light only and was able to get another 1:10 of usable light. At approximately 104 hours it was dim enough that I could briefly look directly at the light from arms length without seeing the resulting 'blue spots'. The case temp rise on this test was also 2C while the lens temp rise reached a whooping 8C. The light was not immersed in cooling water for either test.
The spot light had a higher current draw, but as it is not supposed to be dim-able it actually produced a brighter light at voltages too low to be usable with the flood light, but then quickly exhausted the remaining reserves then quickly dimmed.
New batteries would surely extend the life, but unless someone was unfortunate enough to be rein-acting the movie Sanctum I doubt that any of us will ever come close to exceeding this capability.
This basically just confirms what we already know... The HID lights waste an enormous amount of energy as heat.
Next I'll look into new batteries and a charger. The light didn't come with the original charger so after I select new batteries I'll also get an appropriate charger. It would seem logical to use this opportunity to convert to lithium batteries, however there are still some advantages to NiMH batteries, so I'll research this further before deciding.
I'll add to this post any further info.
I hope this helps anybody trying to rejuvenate their old NiteRider.
Todd
I replaced my batteries with battery cells bought from all-battery.com
The case is 100mm wide with 65mm wide battery pack with foam to fill the space. Waste of space say I.
3800mAh 4/3A cells are 65mm and 1600mAh 2/3A cells are 28mm
All-Battery.com:Tenergy 2/3A 1600mAh NiMH Rechargeable Battery
Rechargeable Batteries & Battery Chargers - One 4/3 AF (18650 Size) 3800 mAh high capacity NiMH battery
Order 11 cells of each.
Also required is some heat shrink
All-Battery.com: 2.78" (70.70mm) Heat Shrink Wrap Tube
All-Battery.com: 4.33" (109.97mm) Heat Shrink Wrap Tube
It is sold by the foot so you'll need to order a foot of each.
I also ordered a smart charger since I didn't have the original charger
All-Battery.com: Tenergy Smart Universal Battery Pack Charger: 12v - 16.8v
Also required is a hot glue gun to hold the batteries together as you assemble the pack.
And of coarse a good soldering iron and some reasonable soldering skills.
Assemble these into 2 series packs of 11 cells in each. Then wire these as 2 parallel battery packs.
If done properly, these should fit perfectly in the case. With the solder tabs and heat shrink it is a snug fit with no room for error.
Hope this helps somebody
The case is 100mm wide with 65mm wide battery pack with foam to fill the space. Waste of space say I.
3800mAh 4/3A cells are 65mm and 1600mAh 2/3A cells are 28mm
All-Battery.com:Tenergy 2/3A 1600mAh NiMH Rechargeable Battery
Rechargeable Batteries & Battery Chargers - One 4/3 AF (18650 Size) 3800 mAh high capacity NiMH battery
Order 11 cells of each.
Also required is some heat shrink
All-Battery.com: 2.78" (70.70mm) Heat Shrink Wrap Tube
All-Battery.com: 4.33" (109.97mm) Heat Shrink Wrap Tube
It is sold by the foot so you'll need to order a foot of each.
I also ordered a smart charger since I didn't have the original charger
All-Battery.com: Tenergy Smart Universal Battery Pack Charger: 12v - 16.8v
Also required is a hot glue gun to hold the batteries together as you assemble the pack.
And of coarse a good soldering iron and some reasonable soldering skills.
Assemble these into 2 series packs of 11 cells in each. Then wire these as 2 parallel battery packs.
If done properly, these should fit perfectly in the case. With the solder tabs and heat shrink it is a snug fit with no room for error.
Hope this helps somebody
lucca brassi
Contributor
Did you put diodes between them ?
I should add a word of caution here. If you are not proficient in basic electronics don't panic, with caution and care you can do this. Maybe? But there are a few points to be cautious about.
First unwrap your old battery pack and carefully study the way the tabs are oriented and which pairs they are soldered to at each end. Pay careful attention to polarity of the cells. Positive end has a little groove around the circumference of the cell.
DO NOT remove the insulator that is covering the tabs until the pack is assembled and held with hot glue. If you remove these insulators then surely while you are trying to keep them straight you will manage to short one out to the wrong ends. it's easy to do and that thin metal tab will turn red hot instantly!
Hot glue guns usually are very poor way to glue anything but in this application they are ideal. The glue has good dielectric properties for electronic applications (fancy way to say great insulator
) and bonds well to the insulating plastic that is on the cells.
Best way to assemble them is to lay down a piece of good double sided tape on your work surface, then alternating polarities (pay very careful attention here), lay down 6 cells. Get your next 5 cells ready to go (correct orientation) and then run a bead of glue between 2 cells on the bottom row and immediately place the a cell from the top row on top of that bead of glue. This bonds those three cells together. repeat with the next grove until you have all 5 cells on top of first six cells. Pay very close attention to the orientation of cells from original battery pack, in particular which way the tabs fold. Most fold longitudinally with the length of the pack, but at one end there is 2 cells which bridge the top & bottom rows.
I should have remembered to take a few more pics during the assembly process.
Remember that these packs of cells are in SERIES, but the 2 packs are wired in PARALLEL.
Good Luck
---------- Post added March 7th, 2013 at 11:25 PM ----------
No. That would interfere with charging. Ideally I should have fused each pack, but I did not.
In a series assembly of cells it is important that all cell capacities be the same, but voltages can differ as you may be adding voltages up to achieve a specific voltage, but in parallel assemblies all voltages must be the same, but capacities can differ.
In an ideal world they would be the same, however as in everything in life it is a compromise. In this case I am cramming extra capacity in a pre-determined case size.
Where this may be a small issue is during rapid charging. The batteries will get warm and now there are more of them in a constrained space. If you're not in a hurry, better to do a slow charge (if your charger has that option). However I would still do a fast charge if I needed to.
If interested there is some info here
www.cdtechno.com/pdf/ref/41_7952_0112.pdf
This discusses parallel operation of lead acid batteries, but for our purposes the discharge and charge info is still valid for NiMH. Page 3 & 4 have some graphs illustrating discharge & recharge. I was going to paste the graphs here but public forums can sometimes get a little uptight about copyright issues.
First unwrap your old battery pack and carefully study the way the tabs are oriented and which pairs they are soldered to at each end. Pay careful attention to polarity of the cells. Positive end has a little groove around the circumference of the cell.
DO NOT remove the insulator that is covering the tabs until the pack is assembled and held with hot glue. If you remove these insulators then surely while you are trying to keep them straight you will manage to short one out to the wrong ends. it's easy to do and that thin metal tab will turn red hot instantly!
Hot glue guns usually are very poor way to glue anything but in this application they are ideal. The glue has good dielectric properties for electronic applications (fancy way to say great insulator
) and bonds well to the insulating plastic that is on the cells.Best way to assemble them is to lay down a piece of good double sided tape on your work surface, then alternating polarities (pay very careful attention here), lay down 6 cells. Get your next 5 cells ready to go (correct orientation) and then run a bead of glue between 2 cells on the bottom row and immediately place the a cell from the top row on top of that bead of glue. This bonds those three cells together. repeat with the next grove until you have all 5 cells on top of first six cells. Pay very close attention to the orientation of cells from original battery pack, in particular which way the tabs fold. Most fold longitudinally with the length of the pack, but at one end there is 2 cells which bridge the top & bottom rows.
I should have remembered to take a few more pics during the assembly process.
Remember that these packs of cells are in SERIES, but the 2 packs are wired in PARALLEL.
Good Luck
---------- Post added March 7th, 2013 at 11:25 PM ----------
No. That would interfere with charging. Ideally I should have fused each pack, but I did not.
In a series assembly of cells it is important that all cell capacities be the same, but voltages can differ as you may be adding voltages up to achieve a specific voltage, but in parallel assemblies all voltages must be the same, but capacities can differ.
In an ideal world they would be the same, however as in everything in life it is a compromise. In this case I am cramming extra capacity in a pre-determined case size.
Where this may be a small issue is during rapid charging. The batteries will get warm and now there are more of them in a constrained space. If you're not in a hurry, better to do a slow charge (if your charger has that option). However I would still do a fast charge if I needed to.
If interested there is some info here
www.cdtechno.com/pdf/ref/41_7952_0112.pdf
This discusses parallel operation of lead acid batteries, but for our purposes the discharge and charge info is still valid for NiMH. Page 3 & 4 have some graphs illustrating discharge & recharge. I was going to paste the graphs here but public forums can sometimes get a little uptight about copyright issues.
lucca brassi
Contributor
1. You can NOT compare NiMH chemistry with SLA or some other LA technology- it is completly different!
2. We not talking about capacities of single batteries but about INTERAL RESISTANCE of them . And interal resistance causes voltage drop on them.
Also NiMH cells in battery packs can be balanced with some simple circuit made with zener diodes of 1,1V or even 1,0V and normaly some cca 27 -31 Ohm in series ( all bateries discharge to zener diode reference , and then alow charger equal current flow through all cells )
3. For diodes in that operation are not used orinary diodes but SCHOTTKY diodes ( a lot of literature and examples on web about that )
2. We not talking about capacities of single batteries but about INTERAL RESISTANCE of them . And interal resistance causes voltage drop on them.
Also NiMH cells in battery packs can be balanced with some simple circuit made with zener diodes of 1,1V or even 1,0V and normaly some cca 27 -31 Ohm in series ( all bateries discharge to zener diode reference , and then alow charger equal current flow through all cells )
3. For diodes in that operation are not used orinary diodes but SCHOTTKY diodes ( a lot of literature and examples on web about that )
Ahh, I figured someone that was an even bigger geek than me would chime in here
. I knew there would be a simple solution to better isolate them, but just didn't have time to look further into it.
I'm getting on a plane to Mexico in a few hours, so I'll look into this further next month.
I am kinda curious just how many divers out there are still using the NiteRider?
. I knew there would be a simple solution to better isolate them, but just didn't have time to look further into it. I'm getting on a plane to Mexico in a few hours, so I'll look into this further next month.
I am kinda curious just how many divers out there are still using the NiteRider?
OP
ScubaMarc
Contributor
I am still using my light. I do have 1 issue, in hurricane sandy i lost my entire 1st floor, my dive gear was ok, but the charger for the niterrider was under water. Do any one know if i can get one online or from radio shack.
krawlings
Contributor
I contacted Niterider lights ,That is when they said that they were no longer in dive lights, But they gave me some information
check out this sight They helped me with some questions I had Niterider ? Technical Lighting Systems » Rechargeable 2013
moonniepaul
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Hi All, Hi Todd,
All;
Did someone else did try these modifications? and how do you experience them?
Todd;
I was looking for info for upgrade for a year now and your modifications are just what i need.
How is the brightness? can it be used for video? What are the burn times?
Does the light holder get warm? I understood that the Leds gave a lot of heat and that is why they use alu containers.
Is there something you would do different?
Thanks all
Paul
All;
Did someone else did try these modifications? and how do you experience them?
Todd;
I was looking for info for upgrade for a year now and your modifications are just what i need.
How is the brightness? can it be used for video? What are the burn times?
Does the light holder get warm? I understood that the Leds gave a lot of heat and that is why they use alu containers.
Is there something you would do different?
Thanks all
Paul
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