Review Diving the Avelo System

[iliketopetsharks]

So let's talk about a balanced rig and neutral buoyancy. A balanced rig isn't actually neutral most of the dive. A balanced rig is intentionally heavy at the start of a dive requiring the diver to fin gently upwards at depth to maintain desired depth. The diver may also keep their lungs more full of gas than otherwise necessary. That's not neutral.

What does that have to do with a balanced rig? The point of it that 1. you can comfortably hold your last stop with practically empty cylinders and 2. that you can swim up full cylinders even with a compressed wetsuit. Correct weighting just makes it easier to attain neutral buoyancy, even though you only "circle around" the point of perfect balance between displaced water vs. mass. That's also true for Avelo.

The point is: BCs aren't flimsy bags of plastic that'll kill you if it fails, given that you're correctly weighted. Avelo is an interesting system that certainly has it's niche it fills well, but it's not like conventional rigs are unsafe and should be phased out.

 

[Ukmc]

So let's talk about a balanced rig and neutral buoyancy. A balanced rig isn't actually neutral most of the dive. A balanced rig is intentionally heavy at the start of a dive requiring the diver to fin gently upwards at depth to maintain desired depth. The diver may also keep their lungs more full of gas than otherwise necessary. That's not neutral.

The general practice of checking weight at 15' with 500 psi in your tank is a solid way to ensure you are balanced. Also as a Scuba Professional it ensures that you can be negative if necessary at any point in the dive by dumping air and exhaling. For example if you need to slow a divers ascent.

Bottom line here is that a balanced rig is negative throughout the dive until you breathe off the excess weight. Typically 4-5 lbs.

Technically, it is correct. In practice, most of the time I come up with 1200 -1500 , so 7 lbs or weight I don’t have to have to touch the inflator. If I “overstay my welcome” and go down to 500-700psi, well then I have to fin down some on the SS. 8 lbs is balanced to 500psi, May have to touch inflator twice… balanced is not an absolute. It just means if my BC get flooded or valve blows , I will NOT plummet… and it is not an emergency.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

What does that have to do with a balanced rig? The point of it that 1. you can comfortably hold your last stop with practically empty cylinders and 2. that you can swim up full cylinders even with a compressed wetsuit. Correct weighting just makes it easier to attain neutral buoyancy, even though you only "circle around" the point of perfect balance between displaced water vs. mass. That's also true for Avelo.

The point is: BCs aren't flimsy bags of plastic that'll kill you if it fails, given that you're correctly weighted. Avelo is an interesting system that certainly has it's niche it fills well, but it's not like conventional rigs are unsafe and should be phased out.

When did I say BCs are flimsy and should be phased out. I haven't suggested that. I did reply to a post claiming Avelo has more points of failure than standard Scuba. Avelo is safer than Standard Scuba.

I also dive Standard quite a lot. I have an xDeep Zen and love it. Is Avelo better? In my opinion yes. I do think Avelo represents a revolution in the industry and will have as big an impact as the introduction of the BCD did.

I'm here to explain Avelo and answer questions. In the end though Avelo has to be experienced to be understood. When you swim through 80' of water column with perfect buoyancy the penny drops.

 

[inquis]

Bottom line here is that a balanced rig is negative throughout the dive until you breathe off the excess weight.

No, the rig is still typically negative because it has to balance the non-rig sources of positive buoyancy -- i.e., the wetsuit and diver (moreso in salt water).

This characteristic is shared by the Avelo rig, by the way. Hopefully that's obvious.

Yes, if a traditional rig has a wing failure, it becomes more negative, forcing the diver to compensate by other means -- typically a larger breath is sufficient for single-tank (and perhaps kicking up for thick wetsuits).

If Avelo has a valve failure (losing ballast), it becomes less negative, forcing the diver to compensate by other means -- typically swimming down, as breathing shallow doesn't have the range required. (You would be positive by the weight of the gas consumed, up to 5 lbs, plus 2 lbs for the initial buoyancy.)

My point is both systems have a similar issue should the primary buoyancy compensation fail. Both are fairly trivial to overcome.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

No, the rig is still typically negative because it has to balance the non-rig sources of positive buoyancy -- i.e., the wetsuit and diver (moreso in salt water).

This characteristic is shared by the Avelo rig, by the way. Hopefully that's obvious.

Yes, if a traditional rig has a wing failure, it becomes more negative, forcing the diver to compensate by other means -- typically a larger breath is sufficient for single-tank (and perhaps kicking up for thick wetsuits).

If Avelo has a valve failure (losing ballast), it becomes less negative, forcing the diver to compensate by other means -- typically swimming down, as breathing shallow doesn't have the range required. (You would be positive by the weight of the gas consumed, up to 5 lbs, plus 2 lbs for the initial buoyancy.)

My point is both systems have a similar issue should the primary buoyancy compensation fail. Both are fairly trivial to overcome.

Avelo does have potential problems that we train for, but have not yet happened. And you are correct that they are easily dealt with. The same can be said for divers on standard with HP Steel 80s, which are obtainable but uncommon. You can also claim that a diver in proper trim position will retain gas in their BC even if a dump valve blows off.

And I'm happy for you that you love diving your kits. I love diving my xDeep with aluminum 80s. I love diving. That said I will still say that Avelo is better. Like the song "My girl is red hot, your girl is ...." lol

Yesterday I got to take an excellent side mount diver out on Avelo. He was pleasantly surprised by the experience. I think you will be also.

No one engaged with Avelo is claiming Standard Scuba NEEDS to be replaced. We are saying that Avelo is Simply Better Scuba. I hope you get a chance to try it. I think you will see why so many expert divers are getting on board with Avelo.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

We are saying that Avelo is Simply Better Scuba.

I think this slogan, much like GRU's "Doing it right" is somewhat asking for trouble. Especially when critically analyzed. Avelo, whatever it's merits, is not "simple" or even "simpler than standard." You're using the weird pressure percents or Avelo mode, you're introduce several new components--batteries and pumps and bladders--you're adding in the relatively narrow weight range that requires more precise weighting to function (which, while good in terms of skills and safety, is definitely not "simpler" than just tossing on 16 lbs and using your bladder to compensate). Compare all of that to the brute simplicity of "I have a waterproof bag. When I wanna go up I fill it with air, when I wanna go down I let the air out."

Similarly, the claim of "better" is an extremely loaded word. Better how? In what way? For who? My diving usually requires me to be very negative and have lots of lift available. Avelo's not better for me. Other people want gear that's easy to travel with, or that they can use anywhere, or that costs as little as safely possible. Avelo's not better for them. Still for others, they want a rig they can customize and mix and match components to suit their needs--one day dive an AL 80, the next day adding a pony, the day after using a steel 117. Avelo's not better for them.

Avelo is "better" in the sense that it offer more stable buoyancy, but there's more to diving than that, and I think you can see why many divers find a system that's hard to travel with, only works with a DIN reg, requires proprietary computer software to use, and only works with one of two tank sizes, both of which require high pressure fills to get a full load of air and neither of which are available everywhere, as the al 80 is, to not be "simply better scuba" no matter the buoyancy gains.

Avelo seems like its good for what its good for, but I don't think it gets to claim being "simply better scuba" than standard OC BCD systems, any more than a rebreather gets to claim the same. I would recommend the slogan "Simply better buoyancy" or even "Brilliantly better buoyancy" but I suspect it's too late for a marketing change on that one.

 

[therookie]

What I am looking for, as an occasional recreational warm-water vacation diver, is "Simply Fun Scuba" - regardless of the gear I am diving with. "Fun" is as subjective as "Better", of course - what's fun for me may not be for someone else.

What stands out to me from the original review from the OP (a diver with decades of experience), and his second review the following year, was that he had fun with Avelo. Clearly @EdMcNeill09 (another experienced diver) has great fun diving this system too - that is obvious from his descriptions of diving it.

Two other posters in this thread it seems did not have as much fun with the system - back around post 84-ish I think. Looks like they didn't click well with their instructor (that's not Avelo's fault - that happens with OW instructors too) and then the weather turned on them so they couldn't do more dives to get a better feel for it.

A couple of other reviews here on SB and that I read from other sources have also been positive - the reviewers seem to have had fun. And a few others found offsite have been "Yeah, it's kinda cool, but... meh"

For a certainty if Avelo finds its way to where I dive (Roatan) so that I can put it to my personal "fun test" at a price point similar to or lower than the PADI DSD, I'm all in - as I think would be my two usual dive buddies when they come to dive there. And from there, we see how it goes...

 

[EdMcNeill09]

What I am looking for, as an occasional recreational warm-water vacation diver, is "Simply Fun Scuba" - regardless of the gear I am diving with. "Fun" is as subjective as "Better", of course - what's fun for me may not be for someone else.

What stands out to me from the original review from the OP (a diver with decades of experience), and his second review the following year, was that he had fun with Avelo. Clearly @EdMcNeill09 (another experienced diver) has great fun diving this system too - that is obvious from his descriptions of diving it.

Two other posters in this thread it seems did not have as much fun with the system - back around post 84-ish I think. Looks like they didn't click well with their instructor (that's not Avelo's fault - that happens with OW instructors too) and then the weather turned on them so they couldn't do more dives to get a better feel for it.

A couple of other reviews here on SB and that I read from other sources have also been positive - the reviewers seem to have had fun. And a few others found offsite have been "Yeah, it's kinda cool, but... meh"

For a certainty if Avelo finds its way to where I dive (Roatan) so that I can put it to my personal "fun test" at a price point similar to or lower than the PADI DSD, I'm all in - as I think would be my two usual dive buddies when they come to dive there. And from there, we see how it goes...

There are a lot of Dive Shops on Roatan. Hopefully one or more will sign up with Avelo.