Diving privately owned springs from river

[Gary D.]

If you're talking about citizen's arrest be very careful. In most cases it is limited to felony in progress and most importantly, the citizen does not have immunities and other protections that certified peace officers have. Better be extremely sure you have the right person and are doing the right thing, especially if the subject is not cooperative and it escalates into physical confrontation.

I find it hard to believe an officer is compelled to act, all he needs is doubt about the circumstances. Happens a lot in domestic cases where two sides dispute who has ownership or rights to property. Unless one side has compelling evidence, officers will likely just separate the parties to prevent physical violence and leave the rest to the courts.

Here is a perfect example as to what I mean when I say check the laws for the area in question and don’t just take the advice of someone here on the board.

Up here a citizen can arrest for any Misdemeanor they witness or has Probable Cause in a Felony. The Felony would most likely be done by a LEO and by-pass the citizen just using them as a witness.

99% of the time the citizen calls the LEO’s to do the actual contact but they are the ones that tell the bad guy they are under arrest or that they are issuing a citation. In this neck of the woods the citizen will be advised by a LEO if it is advisable to arrest/cite or not. They have better protection against false arrest than the LEO’s have but are still subject to a civil suit.

Domestics are a totally different story. If there is a property dispute it will go to the courts for sure as we are a community property state. What’s his is hers and what’s hers is his period. If a domestic is the least bit physical the aggressor goes to jail. The prosecutor doesn’t like it when both halves get booked in but it happens once in a while.

How do you separate the parties in a domestic if one doesn’t agree to stay elsewhere? After all if they are living together or still married each one has the same rights to the property.

Different laws and actions for different areas.

Gary D.

 

[ReefHound]

Up here a citizen can arrest for any Misdemeanor they witness or has Probable Cause in a Felony. The Felony would most likely be done by a LEO and by-pass the citizen just using them as a witness.

So what happens up there when two citizens declare they are arresting the other?

I couldn't agree more with the advice to check local laws for specifics.

 

[KCIREVAM]

Keep diving just don't get caught.

 

[hollywood703]

So what happens up there when two citizens declare they are arresting the other?

There has to be a crime commited to have an arrest...regardless of LEO or citizen....Example....using original example...If OP is caught by property owner for trespassing....and wants him arrested (citation) for it, the OP cant turn around and say I want the property owner arrested......there is no crime committed (unless there is some other circumstances...such as an assault etc.)

Here in Michigan btw, as long as both parties have assaulted each other, (excluding self defense)( and it isnt a 1 person has hit the other, with no retaliation), they both go to jail.


Here would be the way to ask someone....I bet its over $330 for the answer
http://www.lawyers.com/Water-Law/Florida/browse-by-city.html

 

[underwasser bolt]

Up here Trespassing is criminal, not civil so a citizen CAN issue the citation or make an arrest. On Civil issues we're the same, call Perry Mason.

Gary D.

in texas trespass is also criminal, not civil. citizens can make arrests for felonies or a breach of the peace. it would be a huge stretch to call trespassing a breach of the peace. When I say civil issue, I mean that if a person can show a court document showing the issue is contested, or if a document is present casting doubt on the owner's claim to the property, then they can take the issue up with the courts. I am going to the next call.

 

[underwasser bolt]

In a case like this it would be good for judges and officers to remember that "deprivation of civil rights under color of authority" is a Federal crime and a felony to boot.

yes, but you have to not only prove the act, but the culpable mental state. If a judge or officer is making a decision on the scene based upon the best information available AT THAT TIME, they will be immune from any criminal prosecution. The culpable mental state would basically require an officer to see evidence to the contrary, and decide to arrest anyways. This is why I said if see any credible evidence at the scene that throws the issue in doubt, they can take it with the courts. everybody can lawyer up. credible evidence is not someones word or information from the internet, BTW.

 

[underwasser bolt]

oops, forgot to mention, in texas, an arrest for trespass usually requires some form of prior warning.

 

[hollywood703]

sounds the same as here in michigan.....we do not act on civil matters outside of being a peace officer.
I do know that in Michigan, you may access a body of water public or private, as long as the river or creek has public access to it. So if the river has Public access to it, a person could gain entry via that body of water public or private w/o any penalty(as long as you do not go onto land (high water mark etc). Now...Another option to consider, They may not own the water, however, they may own the land under the water, if it was a man made area of water that is attached to a public stream. So anchoring a boat, COULD (not likely) be deemed as tresspassing by the far stretch of interpretation. I dont believe you can leave a unattended boat in a river here, as it could be considered a hazard to others.

 

[JDostal]

It's legal.

It's also what is done fairly often at Jackson Blue, near Marianna. You can rent pontoon boats and motor up the pond to dive Hole In The Wall, Twin and Jackson Blue. Normally you are supposed to pay a fee and sign in at the sheriffs office to dive JB, but if you anchor outside of the swim area and then just swim to the spring there is, from a legality standpoint, absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Yeah it's more work, but hey. When your friend has a couple of flat bottom boats at her place on the pond, why not take advantage of it.

 

[hollywood703]

Are those locations in WI or FL? Whats legal in WI is not necessarily the same in FL!