Diving privately owned springs from river

[DennisS]

If they have the information that shows you are not permitted to access from the river they will show it to you, just to show you they are in the right. If they don't have anything to show you, you're probably good to go.

 

[ReefHound]

Get someone else to ask for you, else if you get stopped later you won't be able to claim ignorance and say you didn't know better. I doubt you would get stopped and ticketed, and depending on the ticket amount it might be worth the try.

 

[GDI]

Here is the catch with Ginnie> Yes you can enter the spring head using a boat. BUT don't touch their land (short of actual emergency). If you do then you will be trespassing and they will charge you for it. Do not tie off to their trees on their land. Also since the river is a navigational waterway make sure you have someone in the boat when you are diving. Because if you leave it then you have created a hazard and the F&W sorts will be more then happy to give you a ticket and possibly some other things. Since you are diving from a boat you will also need a flag. The F&W guys may see you go up the river with the intent to dive if they do not see a flag then you may have another concern.
Get the drift of what I am saying.
It is easier to pay, I suggest getting a year pass

 

[mike_s]

Here is the catch with Ginnie> Yes you can enter the spring head using a boat. BUT don't touch their land (short of actual emergency). If you do then you will be trespassing and they will charge you for it. Do not tie off to their trees on their land.

uhhmm... why? That's what Riparian rights are about. Ownership lines above the water line. chances are the land isn't legally Ginnies until X feet above the high water line.

It's like the guy who was yelling at fishermen in a boat one time fishing throwing lines under his dock. Not much legally that he can do about it.

Also since the river is a navigational waterway make sure you have someone in the boat when you are diving. Because if you leave it then you have created a hazard and the F&W sorts will be more then happy to give you a ticket and possibly some other things.

again.. why?

people dive in the ocean all the time without leaving someone in their boat. As long as he's not blocking the channel, he can anchor and stay as long as he wants and get off his boat. It's not ticketable by F&W.

Some guy has even been driving his houseboat up into Morrison Spring and anchoring the whole weekend.

Since you are diving from a boat you will also need a flag.

This I agree with. HOwever, I doubt you'll see the other divers at Ginnie towing a flag from shore. But I guarentee you that most F&W officer can't tell you the exact rules of the dive flag, but they know it's something that they can write a ticket for if you don't have one.

 

[rainmaker]

About the time I left FL in the late 1980's, I recall a case where some guys in a canoe entered a spring from a river to test the law (it may have been Weeki Wachee Springs, but I'm not sure). Anyway, they got cited for trespassing, and they showed up in court. So did the owners of the spring. Lawyers were, of course, involved. The lawyers for the guys in the canoe wanted to see the tax records for the folks who "owned" the springs. After reviewing the tax records, it became apparent that the owners had been paying state taxes ONLY on the land surrounding the springs, and not on the actual "water" part of the springs. At this point, the owners realized that they had been ambushed, and sought to end the proceedings by dropping the trespassing charges. I don't know how the case ended.

However, I believe a point of contention is this: If the owners claim to own the springs, let them produce tax records showing that they have paid taxes not only on the land surrounding the springs, but on the springs themselves.

The springs are obviously very valuable (in addition to the land that surrounds them). So, are they paying taxes on the "water" part of the springs or not? If not, how can they claim to actually own them?

 

[DiverBizz]

Just be careful claiming ignorance of the law will not avoid the possible ticket. Each area is different don't assume that just because they do it in in one place doesn't mean that it is ok in the case of Ginnie.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Since you are diving from a boat you will also need a flag.

What does diving from a boat have to do with whether or not a flag is required?

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Its may be different from state to state, but in my case (NH) the boating laws require a dive flag to be flown on the boat when divers are in the water and other boaters to stay at least 150' away from your boat (and presummed divers nearby). This is independent of any requirements for a diver towed flag.

 

[mike_s]

What does diving from a boat have to do with whether or not a flag is required?

In the state of Florida, where the original poster is asking about.. it's required by law.


from http://myfwc.com/boating/safety/diving_flag.htm

327.331 Divers; definitions; divers-down flag required; obstruction to navigation of certain waters; penalty.--

(1) As used in this section: (a) "Diver" means any person who is wholly or partially submerged in the waters of the state and is equipped with a face mask and snorkel or underwater breathing apparatus.

(b) "Underwater breathing apparatus" means any apparatus, whether self-contained or connected to a distant source of air or other gas, whereby a person wholly or partially submerged in water is enabled to obtain or reuse air or any other gas or gases for breathing without returning to the surface of the water.

(c) "Divers-down flag" means a flag that meets the following specifications:

1. The flag must be square or rectangular. If rectangular, the length must not be less than the height, or more than 25 percent longer than the height. The flag must have a wire or other stiffener to hold it fully unfurled and extended in the absence of a wind or breeze.

2. The flag must be red with a white diagonal stripe that begins at the top staff-side of the flag and extends diagonally to the lower opposite corner. The width of the stripe must be 25 percent of the height of the flag.

3. The minimum size for any divers-down flag displayed on a buoy or float towed by the diver is 12 inches by 12 inches. The minimum size for any divers-down flag displayed from a vessel or structure is 20 inches by 24 inches.

4. Any divers-down flag displayed from a vessel must be displayed from the highest point of the vessel or such other location which provides that the visibility of the divers-down flag is not obstructed in any direction.

(2) All divers must prominently display a divers-down flag in the area in which the diving occurs, other than when diving in an area customarily used for swimming only.

(3) No diver or group of divers shall display one or more divers-down flags on a river, inlet, or navigation channel, except in case of emergency, in a manner which shall unreasonably constitute a navigational hazard.

(4) Divers shall make reasonable efforts to stay within 100 feet of the divers-down flag on rivers, inlets, and navigation channels. Any person operating a vessel on a river, inlet, or navigation channel must make a reasonable effort to maintain a distance of at least 100 feet from any divers-down flag.

(5) Divers must make reasonable efforts to stay within 300 feet of the divers-down flag on all waters other than rivers, inlets, and navigation channels. Any person operating a vessel on waters other than a river, inlet, or navigation channel must make a reasonable effort to maintain a distance of at least 300 feet from any divers-down flag.

(6) Any vessel other than a law enforcement or rescue vessel that approaches within 100 feet of a divers-down flag on a river, inlet, or navigation channel, or within 300 feet of a divers-down flag on waters other than a river, inlet, or navigation channel, must proceed no faster than is necessary to maintain headway and steerageway.

(7) The divers-down flag must be lowered once all divers are aboard or ashore. No person may operate any vessel displaying a divers-down flag unless the vessel has one or more divers in the water.

1(8) Any willful violation of this section shall be a misdemeanor of the second degree punishable as provided by s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

History.--ss. 1, 2, 3, ch. 74-344; s. 64, ch. 74-383; s. 1, ch. 77-174; s. 1, ch. 86-35; ss. 7, 8, ch. 2000-362.

1Note.--Section 8, ch. 2000-362, amended subsection (8), effective October 1, 2001, to read:

(8) Except as provided in s. 327.33, any violation of this section shall be a noncriminal infraction punishable as provided in s. 327.73.

Note.--Former s. 861.065.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

It's a popular swimming area, not sure if I legally need the flag on the boat. But, I can display one easily, it's setup for it. Also, I don't know about the laws of leaving a boat un-inhabited for a while, but I don't think it's illegal, especially if the boat is not a hazard or in anyones way, etc.

As for touching the ground, I don't think Ginnie could get me for touching the dirt that's at the bottom of the river. Think about it: I stir up silt, this silt is their property (assuming), the silt happens to touch people inthe river, now everyone that tubes down the Santa Fe that day has trespassed at Ginnie.

If they claim to own the water, well.....the water is flowing. If they think they own the water than they pretty much own the entire river by now. And if they think they own the land underneath the water, Riparian Rights.