Diving Nitrox AND air

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Excellent discussion. Thanks guys. I'm impressed and distressed that we have well-considered responses that answer with diametrically opposing viewpoints. Very interesting! It's like the "Taste's Great - Less Filling" beer debate... ha ha I'm actually no closer to an answer but I think I'll take Doppler's advice. We'll go for a dive or two and then buy each other a beer...
Actually, I am not sure that the viewpoints are diametrically opposing; rather as several have stated, 'IT DEPENDS' is the clear answer:

On depth, time, mix, surface interval, etc. There is no one right answer.

For example, if you use enriched air first, are you going to spend your entire (longer) NDL (60 minutes, at 70 feet, on 32%) at depth, or are you going to spend the same time at depth that you would have spent on air (40 minutes, at 70 feet, on 21%) - i.e. gas supply, NOT NDL, is the limiting factor. In the first case (longer dive time), you will have absorbed an equivalent amount of nitrogen, and the penalty you pay on the next - air - dive, is actually more substantial, because your air NDL is shorter anyway. However, a longer surface interval will offset this.

Personally, I would plan my deeper dive first. If the depth was within my enriched air MOD, I might choose to use that first, to reduce nitrogen loading. But, of course, that point is moot if I stay longer. If I stay a shorter time - the same time that I would have stayed on air, and then use air on the second shallower dive, the differential effect on NDL (air vs enriched air) may be small enough so that the effect on my dive time is trivial. Yes, I would have accumulated less nitrogen on the first dive, but I will accumulate more, on air, on the second.

If the dive is close to my MOD, I might choose air, then use nitrox on my second dive.

As Doppler said, and you decided to do, buy each other a beer. There is not RIGHT answer.
 
Agreed. I mean diametrically opposed only in that one considered opinion stated Nitrox first, air second while another equally considered opinion suggested air first and Nitrox second - for different reasons. I realize there are depth, bottom time, surface interval factors to consider to find a definitive answer. All required data was never supplied. More a mental problem to get a discussion going. Definitely deeper dive first. I'm still inclined to dive Nitrox first as it makes intuitive sense to me. Maybe the real answer is to buy two more tanks so I have two of each.... ha ha
 
I'm still inclined to dive Nitrox first as it makes intuitive sense to me.
To me as well.
djensen:
Maybe the real answer is to buy two more tanks so I have two of each.... ha ha
Ah, now you are thinking like a real diver. When in doubt, buy more gear - you can never have too much. :)
 
i wonder why i dive air and deco nitrox, and not the inverse ?
i wonder why i dive trimix on morning and nitrox on evening, and not the inverse

do you think i'm wrong ?
not the same bubbles ?
 
When I can I usually dive Nitrox, especially on square profile dives, sometimes I don't have enough tanks to accommodate a buddy like my daughter or somebody visiting from overseas.

For this site I dive Air first then EAN36, hope the table makes sense

[TABLE="width: 345"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Nitrox v Air Car Cemetery [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]16M Max Time[/TD]
[TD]EPG[/TD]
[TD]SI 60' PG[/TD]
[TD]Mat BT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air[/TD]
[TD]72'[/TD]
[TD]X[/TD]
[TD]I[/TD]
[TD]43'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EAN 36[/TD]
[TD]185'[/TD]
[TD]Z[/TD]
[TD]J[/TD]
[TD]134'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air / EAN36[/TD]
[TD]60'[/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]147'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EAN36/Air[/TD]
[TD]60'[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]55'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air / EAN36[/TD]
[TD]72'[/TD]
[TD]X[/TD]
[TD]I[/TD]
[TD]139'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EAN36/Air[/TD]
[TD]72'[/TD]
[TD]O[/TD]
[TD]E[/TD]
[TD]51'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="width: 345"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Strictly speaking you should use air for the first dive and nitrox for the second.
You should be doing your deepest dive first, which should be on your lowest mix.
 
I would do my deeper dive first, and I would use equivalent air depth as the metric. And it would be easier if we used metric, but since you used feet, I calculate an EAD of 56' on the first dive, using 32% and 70' of actual depth (.68/.79 x 3.12 atmospheres = 2.69 atmospheres = ~56'), and, of course, 50' on the second dive using air. Nitrox first, using those parameters.
 
For what it's worth, I would use the nitrox first and then the air...
It appears that I've taught Dopp well! :D

Use the NitrOx on the deeper dive to get the most benefit of the mix, but please DON'T exceed your MOD. There are really no safety considerations of doing one or the other or even doing the deep dive first. Yeah, I know a lot of us were taught that deep dives MUST be done first, but this is to maximize bottom time and not safety.
 
When I can I usually dive Nitrox, especially on square profile dives, sometimes I don't have enough tanks to accommodate a buddy like my daughter or somebody visiting from overseas.

For this site I dive Air first then EAN36, hope the table makes sense

[TABLE="width: 345"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Nitrox v Air Car Cemetery[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]16M Max Time[/TD]
[TD]EPG[/TD]
[TD]SI 60' PG[/TD]
[TD]Mat BT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air[/TD]
[TD]72'[/TD]
[TD]X[/TD]
[TD]I[/TD]
[TD]43'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EAN 36[/TD]
[TD]185'[/TD]
[TD]Z[/TD]
[TD]J[/TD]
[TD]134'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air / EAN36[/TD]
[TD]60'[/TD]
[TD]T[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]147'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EAN36/Air[/TD]
[TD]60'[/TD]
[TD]L[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]55'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Air / EAN36[/TD]
[TD]72'[/TD]
[TD]X[/TD]
[TD]I[/TD]
[TD]139'[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]EAN36/Air[/TD]
[TD]72'[/TD]
[TD]O[/TD]
[TD]E[/TD]
[TD]51'[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="width: 345"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Are you sure about those numbers?
One of them stuck out right away for me.
 
I know a lot of us were taught that deep dives MUST be done first, but this is to maximize bottom time and not safety.
I think there is at least a theoretical risk to reverse profiles in the bubble models, though at recreational depths it does not manifest itself. I base that on this article (about a dozen years old) from Undercurrent, describing a workshop that looked at the subject specifically:

Always Do Your Deep Dive First?: Undercurrent 05/2000

Practical diving experience showed few problems with reverse profiles, but bubble models showed there could be. Thus, they adjusted some wording to make it clear that it was only in the diving experience that there had been few problems, not that there’s a lack of evidence that reverse profiles are or could have a higher DCS risk. The sentiment prevailed also that there should be a pressure differential limit, noting that most of the safely executed reverse profiles were in 40 fsw or less between the repetitive dives. Another point of agreement was that the sport diving limit of 130 fsw should apply to any relaxation of current prohibitions on reverse profile diving,

If those conclusions have been superseded by more recent research I would welcome a link to it.
 

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