Diving Instructor for one year?

[sheeper]

when I did my IDC I had somewhere near 2,000 dives. divemaster was 1500 dives before that. Part of the reason I did the IDC was BECAUSE I was seeing instructors who were basically new divers, Some of my dive buddies had family members they wanted trained and only wanted me to train them and were surprised that I was not already an instructor.
glad I did it because a) it is fun, b) I feel like I contribute something to the sport I love c) I have a real job that actually pays the bills

 

[FinnMom]

This might not be such an unlikely pipe dream if you have significant language skills, and/or other skills that might make you valuable to a vacation-site employer. Can you speak 3 or more languages, do you have restaurant kitchen experience/training, general handyman/maintenance skills, are you resonably experienced handling boats, etc.? If you can do resort-location jobs and are a good, reliable worker, maybe this could happen.
Maybe you could at least live in a great diving location and along with other types of employment at least be involved with the dive shop (guiding, making fills, helping customers, being a deckhand) while earning enough to get by and enjoying a year away diving. Esp. if you improve your foreign language skills the year would not be wasted.

 

[Oldbear]

Most Europeans have much superior language skills compared to the Americans, however, inexperience is universal. :d

 

[RJP]

Yet, PADI only requires 60 logged dives to enter their IDC program. Those are either some REALLY long dives, or something doesn't add up. Sure, other agencies like NAUI have more stringent requirements

Hmm... how many logged dives does NAUI require to enter their instructor program? (Hint: It's 10 FEWER than PADI requires.)

PADI requires 60 dives to enter the IDC, and 100 to attend the IE. NAUI only has a requirement for entering, but nothing more for completing.

So it's actually possible to become a NAUI instructor with HALF AS MANY dives as it takes to become a PADI instructor.

Doesn't sound "more stringent" to me.

---------- Post added May 30th, 2015 at 09:38 AM ----------

There was a recent study that said, it takes 10,000 hours of doing something, to master it.

Was there a "recent study" or did you recently read pop-psychologist Malcolm Gladwell's "pulled-out-of-thin-air" quote on the subject?

Won't be the same as a "study" but lets spend 30 seconds looking at the math behind the 10,000 hour rule to provide a little context and see if it passes the smell test:

If you worked at whatever that "something" is for 8 hrs a day, five days a week, every week, no vacations, no holidays, no sick days, no nothing. Just practicing that "something" all day every day... it would take you 250 weeks to log 10,000 hours. That's five years. By comparison, you can graduate from Harvard Medical School in only four years... and still get Summers off and two weeks at Christmas!

So, effectively, you're contending that it's a shame there isn't an agency that spends a full year longer to turn out a scuba instructor than it takes Harvard to turn out a medical doctor.

By the way the so-called "10,000 Hour Rule" is not to "master" something, but rather to "become world class" at something. Such as an Olympic gold medal winner, first chair violinist at Carnegie Hall, etc. The specific example he cites is The Beatles having amassed 10,000 hours of practice to becoming "the greatest rock band in history."

Now, if you want an actual study on the matter there was one done at Princeton University recently. It concluded that Gladwell was full of crap...

New Study Destroys Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 Rule - Business Insider

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes, it certainly has to do with what you are trying to "master". I agree with all of that except that you probably mean first chair violinist, NY Philharmonic (Carnegie Hall is a place even I once played in--actually on the stage, not in the Men's Room). And no survey needed to show it would take way more than 5 years or 10,000 hours to accomplish that (not to mention a ton of luck).

 

[FinnMom]

You should realize that many health professionals would vigorously, enthusiastically agree that a newly minted doc knows next to nothing.
Thanks heavens for internship and years and years (and somes still years) of residency.. But we are off topic.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch
It doesn't take a rigously deep and varied experience to teach people how to dive very calm, clear, shallow water under the vigilant eyes of divemasters and other assistants. This is the diving the average warm water vacation course diver will do. Of course this shouldn't be all a new diver is capable of doing, but the majority never will do anything else. Heck, some 20% will probably never dive again (if the stats I've seen are true - If they are wrong I am).

 

[tye1138]

Doesn't sound "more stringent" to me.

I went to a diving trade school for my IDC, they required 200 dives. I only decided to check the NAUI box after my education was finished because back then, PADI instructors had to be part of a shop and I worked independent of a shop.

Was there a "recent study" or did you recently read pop-psychologist Malcolm Gladwell's "pulled-out-of-thin-air" quote on the subject?

I train people in other disciplines and part of the documentation used discusses the 10,000 hour model. It's a common thread in other industries outside of SCUBA diving. If you have a problem with it, you should take it up with the people who write the text books. I can gladly give you their address and you can write a scathing letter to them.

So, effectively, you're contending that it's a shame there isn't an agency that spends a full year longer to turn out a scuba instructor than it takes Harvard to turn out a medical doctor.

Nope, I just feel if you wish to be an instructor for ANYTHING, you should be an expert first. If that means spending the next 10 years of your life doing that activity before becoming an instructor, that's what it should take. That's how the world use to work with apprenticeships. People would spend years as an apprentice before moving up the ladder. Today, anyone can take a course and magically somehow have the skills to do a task. The reality is, we're getting worse and worse at what we do. People with real experience are pushed aside for younger, eager faces looking for money who aren't very good.

 

[TMHeimer]

Nope, I just feel if you wish to be an instructor for ANYTHING, you should be an expert first. If that means spending the next 10 years of your life doing that activity before becoming an instructor, that's what it should take. That's how the world use to work with apprenticeships. People would spend years as an apprentice before moving up the ladder. Today, anyone can take a course and magically somehow have the skills to do a task. The reality is, we're getting worse and worse at what we do. People with real experience are pushed aside for younger, eager faces looking for money who aren't very good.[/QUOTE


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Years of Aprenticeship years ago for some careers maybe. To my knowledge, never so for school teachers. Get your 4 year college degree and off you go. I assume we all think teachers have important jobs. Now, it is highly unlikely that a teacher would be responsible for a student's life (not impossible today), whereas a dive instructor is. The DM course costs in the area of $1,000 and takes weeks to months to complete. IDC takes less time and costs more. Is anyone suggesting the material that needs to be learned to be a scuba instructor in anyway compares to a 4 year teacher degree? Or other degrees- engineering, etc. So, how much time and money should go into becoming a scuba instructor? What about pay-- after all that apprenticeship time? Pay for any job can be debated--A-Rod still collecting on the $250M. But is anyone goint to spend 10 years as an apprentice to become a scuba DM or Instructor and make minimum wage?

 

[tye1138]

Years of Aprenticeship years ago for some careers maybe.

Our society still survives on apprenticeships, we call them internships today. It's a very similar thing, only with a different name.

To my knowledge, never so for school teachers.

Public school teachers generally spend years working up the ladder assisting with classes, making little to no money before they teach our children. So no, they aren't going to school for 4 years and magically getting a classroom full of 8 year old's, that doesn't happen very much. Same goes for our Doctors, they will spend years interning post degree.

The DM course costs in the area of $1,000 and takes weeks to months to complete. IDC takes less time and costs more.

Yep and it was a pre-requisite for me to become an instructor 13 years ago. I couldn't even take the ICD without it.

So, how much time and money should go into becoming a scuba instructor?

In my vision, you shouldn't be able to take the course without demonstrating a minimal of 5 years diving and hundreds of logged dives. The course director should test any new candidate before they even sign up for the course. Dive Master should be a mandatory course and everyone who becomes an instructor should have served time on a boat OR helped with open water classes prior to signing up and have proof.

Training should be a course director and single student, not a bunch of potential IDC candidates. The course director should mentor their new student through hands-on experience with their business, as if they were an employee. When the course director feels happy the student is ready to move on, they will make that call. Eventually, the student will start to teach the classes under the course directors watchful eye. This will allow the fine tuning of the skills performed. Once all of that is done, then the potential IDC candidate can go through the testing procedure. If the candidate is a really good, proficient diver and has all the necessary skills, the time it takes to go through this course could be a few weekends. If they aren't good and need work, maybe it could take upwards of a month or two.

In my eyes, it should be difficult to get through the course. At the end however, the certificate actually means you're prepared for what awaits you. This program will produce excellent instructors, people who are passionate about the sport as well. Price is irrelevant in my eyes, it should be based on how much time it takes you to get the skills down. Drop-out rates will be high as a consequence, but if you're not prepared, you shouldn't be pushed through the course and let out to pasture.

Today, the IDC course is a joke. It's just a more advanced, business-end version of the open water course. I've sat in on some modern ICD courses and I can't believe what I'm seeing. I've been diving with some of those newly crowned instructors and it's just a sad sight. I'm blessed to be around professional divers today and honestly, that description I gave above is exactly how they teach. They actually take pride in this sport, unlike many people who aren't interested in doing the right thing, they're just interested in making money. There is no money in this sport for people who do the right thing. Most of us have full-time jobs outside of diving and are involved in the diving community because we love it so much.

 

[TMHeimer]

tye1138, You make a lot of sense regarding the IDC. I had 158 dives when I started the DM course. As an assistant, I felt good starting to DM and am constantly learning from different instructors (taking notes on their procedures). As a DM though, the buck doesn't stop with me, despite my responsibilities. I will never take the IDC-- no interest. But your requirements for doing so are not out of line. My only "problems" here is you say price is irrelevant--and pay: "most have full time jobs....scuba because we love it", etc. People complain about poor politicians. Cut their pay and then see what you get.

SCHOOL TEACHERS: Don't know where you got your info. There ARE EAs (Teacher Assistants. My wife was one). 1/3 teachers pay. Has NOTHING to do with becoming a teacher--you need the degree 99%of the time. Those graduating with a degree and teaching cert. don't "work up the ladder assisting with classes for little or no money". They go right into the classroom at a bottom of the grid teacher's salary (which nowadays is quite decent--my step daughter made $40,000 in 2005 in her first year--- even was decent when I started at $13,600 in 1977). Then they BEGIN to learn. To my knowledge this is the way it has always been. And maybe later they even get into scuba and take the IDC.

addendum: Now, considering all the "crap" if you will that teachers have had to put up with in U.S. (AND Canadian) schools for the last 4 or 5 decades, who in his/her right mind would go 4+ years to college, then do 10,000 hours of little or no pay to do this? But, we have those great summer vacations and so many other days off....