elan
Contributor
Not the fill rig, only the non. ditchable part. Those parts that can be ditched (stage bottles, lights, ditchable weight) are not taken into account.
Diving Dry? Balance your Rig!
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Not the fill rig, only the non. ditchable part. Those parts that can be ditched (stage bottles, lights, ditchable weight) are not taken into account.
I disagree, if they can't swim it up, they shouldn't dive it......and those super heavy tech rigs, aren't that bad at all if you are weighted properly. And yes the rig should be able to float all of the gear.
A set of twin 130s lets take since that is pretty common for tech. -10.5lbs buoyancy per tank full, -2 or 3 for an alu plate, and maybe another 3lbs for manifold and regs.
So added up, -21 for tanks, and -6 for the others. so -27lbs negative at the start of the dive.
if you want to know 100% what it is, take ur rig, put it in the water and use a fish scale, nice and easy
put ur drysuit on, go to a shallow area and see how much lead it actually takes you to get your body under the water.
a drysuit with a 200g undergarment would likely be 15 lbs positive.
That gives you a net buoyancy of -12lbs
Yes i know I didn't include things like can lights, reels, or stages/deco bottles......the reason being is you can get rid of/hand all of that off.
I don't know about you, but it does not take superhuman strength to swim up 12lbs of ballast. My set of twin 100s are only 2lbs less negative than twin 130s and I can swim those up with no air in the wing with zero issues.
But if for some reason you can't swim it up....get a smaller set of tanks and carry some stages.
Now in saying that, all tech divers are taught to dive with everything having a redundant backup. Which is why you see dual bladder wings or anytime a set of twins are used, a drysuit is on. Also, lift bags/dsmbs and such are carried....they can all be used.
But hey, lets have a link to the organization that everyone seems to recommend as a class to take prior to tech.....the DIR folks have plenty online about a balanced rig.
Here is a great read.....and as a disclaimer, I am not a DIR diver...i'm a sidemounter.....but this info pertains to all.
DIR-diver.com - How much lead?
Oh, and as for the exhaust setting on the drysuit.....mine is always set to fully automatic. The exhaust on a drysuit vents significantly slower than a BC, also, it is in such a place that when you are in trim it will not vent any gas, you have to make that exhaust the high point on your body in order to vent gas.
So it doesn't really matter what your idea of a balanced rig is.....if you need air in your drysuit along with a maxed out wing to keep from sinking....no matter how you look at it you are over weight and diving in a very dangerous scenario.
---------- Post added October 14th, 2013 at 03:25 PM ----------
I liked your post not because you almost drowned
I liked it because it really hammers home that you need to be able to get that rig up......what would have happened if you couldn't.......you may not have been here to make that post......
Thanks for the story Tracy, i'm glad you posted it!
A set of twin 130s lets take since that is pretty common for tech. -10.5lbs buoyancy per tank full, -2 or 3 for an alu plate, and maybe another 3lbs for manifold and regs.
So added up, -21 for tanks, and -6 for the others. so -27lbs negative at the start of the dive.
if you want to know 100% what it is, take ur rig, put it in the water and use a fish scale, nice and easy
put ur drysuit on, go to a shallow area and see how much lead it actually takes you to get your body under the water.
a drysuit with a 200g undergarment would likely be 15 lbs positive.
That gives you a net buoyancy of -12lbs
Yes i know I didn't include things like can lights, reels, or stages/deco bottles......the reason being is you can get rid of/hand all of that off.
I don't know about you, but it does not take superhuman strength to swim up 12lbs of ballast. My set of twin 100s are only 2lbs less negative than twin 130s and I can swim those up with no air in the wing with zero issues.
But if for some reason you can't swim it up....get a smaller set of tanks and carry some stages.
Now in saying that, all tech divers are taught to dive with everything having a redundant backup. Which is why you see dual bladder wings or anytime a set of twins are used, a drysuit is on. Also, lift bags/dsmbs and such are carried....they can all be used.
But hey, lets have a link to the organization that everyone seems to recommend as a class to take prior to tech.....the DIR folks have plenty online about a balanced rig.
Here is a great read.....and as a disclaimer, I am not a DIR diver...i'm a sidemounter.....but this info pertains to all.
DIR-diver.com - How much lead?
Oh, and as for the exhaust setting on the drysuit.....mine is always set to fully automatic. The exhaust on a drysuit vents significantly slower than a BC, also, it is in such a place that when you are in trim it will not vent any gas, you have to make that exhaust the high point on your body in order to vent gas.
So it doesn't really matter what your idea of a balanced rig is.....if you need air in your drysuit along with a maxed out wing to keep from sinking....no matter how you look at it you are over weight and diving in a very dangerous scenario.
---------- Post added October 14th, 2013 at 03:25 PM ----------
I liked your post not because you almost drowned
I liked it because it really hammers home that you need to be able to get that rig up......what would have happened if you couldn't.......you may not have been here to make that post......
Thanks for the story Tracy, i'm glad you posted it!
GrumpyOldGuy
Contributor
Darnold9999
Contributor
Something to also consider. Not only can you swim it up to the surface, but can you keep it there. Does you no good to arrive at the surface after a superhuman effort to get there too exhausted to stay there.
My version of a balanced rig is one where if the diver and the rig are separated both will be roughly nuetral at depth.
Total amount of lead is enough so that just before being uncomfortably squeezed at the end of the dive and wing empty you can hover at 10 feet without moving. Then add a couple of pounds to allow for extra air to keep warm.
Enough lead to ditch so that if both drysuit and wing fail you can get to the surface at any point in the dive. For exmple if you were to jump in (or fall in) with no air.
Not a drysuit story, but was diving some kind of steel 100cf LP tank on a liveaboard. Full it was extremely negative. No idea how much, but there was no way I was swimming it up if my wing failed in my 1/2 shorty. Was barely possible in a 3mil full suit. Contingency was to switch to pony and ditch everything - and I ran the steps to do that after the first dive. Felt quite uncomfortable on that first dive being so negative with no lead to ditch
My version of a balanced rig is one where if the diver and the rig are separated both will be roughly nuetral at depth.
Total amount of lead is enough so that just before being uncomfortably squeezed at the end of the dive and wing empty you can hover at 10 feet without moving. Then add a couple of pounds to allow for extra air to keep warm.
Enough lead to ditch so that if both drysuit and wing fail you can get to the surface at any point in the dive. For exmple if you were to jump in (or fall in) with no air.
Not a drysuit story, but was diving some kind of steel 100cf LP tank on a liveaboard. Full it was extremely negative. No idea how much, but there was no way I was swimming it up if my wing failed in my 1/2 shorty. Was barely possible in a 3mil full suit. Contingency was to switch to pony and ditch everything - and I ran the steps to do that after the first dive. Felt quite uncomfortable on that first dive being so negative with no lead to ditch
mdax
Contributor
I'm confused by some of the responses. You must be able to swim your rig up to the surface without the bc working.
My wife can pull this off and she's small. If someone is so out of shape they cannot perform this task they won't be doing any technical dives with me.
My wife can pull this off and she's small. If someone is so out of shape they cannot perform this task they won't be doing any technical dives with me.
GrumpyOldGuy
Contributor
That works too if you have a reliable buddy. I don't count on that but 90% of my dives are solo or instant buddy so I am SOL.
My original point as swimming up your rig <> balanced rig. They are 2 mutually independent ideals, one is a skill the other a piece of equipment. You can have one or the other. Having both is preferable. Twisting the definition of balanced rig to include a physical capability is confusing to say the least.
Edit: The context is the OP is DIVING DRY, so you already can assume you have redundant lift from the D/S in case of BCD failure.
agreed, and this works for most of my dives.
Darnold9999
Contributor
Last edited:
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Here is an example.....
A few weeks ago I was crewing on our boat in Lake Michigan. An experienced diver, diving his drysuit, stepped to the back of the boat, and orally inflated his BC. Hopped in and went along on his dive. I was thinking to myself that those couple breathes he saved by manually inflating, weren't going to kill his tank....but assumed this is how he always did it. The dive was uneventful, and we moved to the next dive site.
The diver again, at the back of the boat orally inflated his BC, and proceeded to hop into the water. Everything was good, and I pointed out to him that his camera was slowly heading to the bottom as it came unlatched. It was about 5ft away, and I told him just go get it really quick, and come back up. If you can't get it by 15feet, just come up and we will look for it later. His buddy was right behind him on the platform about to get in...
The guy comes back up, and is flailing around trying to stay afloat. I didn't have dive gear on, and was talking to him from the boat. He was already pretty tired from swimming to the surface. His buddy was 5ft away and tried to inflate his BC, nothing. They started talking, so I assumed things were OK. Not taking my eye off, I noticed he started slipping lower and lower in the water, and becoming a little more panicked as he was talking to his buddy. It seems he was trying to fix the problem, and kept kicking and wearing himself out, and his buddy wasn't really doing much to help and was a bit in shock now at what was happening. I calmly wen to the bow and grabbed my fins, continuing to watch them the whole way....He started to go under and I threw on the fins and jumped in swimming towards them. They were now about 75ft from the boat. I got to him, and raised him up out of the water. Stupidly, I only had on shorts...I didn't take a float, line or anything. I raised him up, so he could breath and was finning us both on the surface. He was breathing too heavy to keep his reg in, no matter what I tried to tell him or how much water was splashing in his face. As I raised him, I grabbed his inflator....nothing. Instantly I dropped one weight pocket and the next to lighten my load. I started to swim him towards the boat, and saw that the captain had thrown the rescue float!
SWEEET! I can get a tow in! I grab the float, only to realize it wasn't tied! The captain had grabbed the float and line, on a charter the day prior, some little girls must have played with the knot, not thinking what it was used for. When he tossed it, the float went, but the line was still by his feet. No biggie, grab the float and give it to the victim so I can swim. He is EXTREMELY out of breath now. When pulling him in, he was getting some water in his mouth, and was so exhausted from kicking to stay alive before I got to him. Regardless of my attempts to get him to keep his reg in, he is not doing it and is breathing REALLY hard..probably harder than the reg could supply. He is struggling with the float, and flopping everywhere with it. I took it back and proceeded to swim in. We got to the back of the boat, and took him out of his BC and got him on board. I couldn't inflate it sooner, as I was trying to keep him out of the water, and all this happened within seconds, so we were getting back to the boat ASAP.
When on the boat, it took him about 45 minutes to fully recover and get his color back. We kept asking questions to make sure he was still with us mentally. After I caught my breath, and keeping the whole boat from panicking, I looked at his gear. His inflator was never fully on the bc adapter. So, he could never put air in the BC. Had he not manually inflated his bc when entering the water, he could have spotted the problem early on and fixed the hose.
Well, if you remember, he WAS wearing a drysuit....Why didn't he just push the inflate button? "I knew I had a drysuit, I pushed the button to inflate it, and it the air just escaped the exhaust valve." So why didn't you close the valve? "I knew I could, but in my panic, I just couldn't think how to do it....I froze."
Thankfully, he did have ditchable weights. He wore himself out just trying to get to the surface...even though he had a full tank. When he went for his camera, all the air was squeezed from the suit and BC. On the way up, no air for the BC, and he kept losing his air in the drysuit as the valve was all the way open. I have no doubt I could have still swam him to the boat even if I couldn't ditch his weights, but it would have been a MUCH bigger task and he probably would have lost his rig when we got him out of the BC due to the extra weight and him being the primary focus.
All in all, a big eye opener....you never know what little thing may happen no matter how long you having diving or doing the same routine. A balanced and known rig is essential as the water is trying to kill you around every curve! I'm just glad I was there, and paying attention to ensure the water didn't win this time. I haven't shared this publicly, but this seemed like a decent spot to inject this incident. Hopefully this incident helps someone else....pay attention and no your gear. He had 100+ dives in a drysuit, and still couldn't think to close the valve when the $hit hit the fan
A few weeks ago I was crewing on our boat in Lake Michigan. An experienced diver, diving his drysuit, stepped to the back of the boat, and orally inflated his BC. Hopped in and went along on his dive. I was thinking to myself that those couple breathes he saved by manually inflating, weren't going to kill his tank....but assumed this is how he always did it. The dive was uneventful, and we moved to the next dive site.
The diver again, at the back of the boat orally inflated his BC, and proceeded to hop into the water. Everything was good, and I pointed out to him that his camera was slowly heading to the bottom as it came unlatched. It was about 5ft away, and I told him just go get it really quick, and come back up. If you can't get it by 15feet, just come up and we will look for it later. His buddy was right behind him on the platform about to get in...
The guy comes back up, and is flailing around trying to stay afloat. I didn't have dive gear on, and was talking to him from the boat. He was already pretty tired from swimming to the surface. His buddy was 5ft away and tried to inflate his BC, nothing. They started talking, so I assumed things were OK. Not taking my eye off, I noticed he started slipping lower and lower in the water, and becoming a little more panicked as he was talking to his buddy. It seems he was trying to fix the problem, and kept kicking and wearing himself out, and his buddy wasn't really doing much to help and was a bit in shock now at what was happening. I calmly wen to the bow and grabbed my fins, continuing to watch them the whole way....He started to go under and I threw on the fins and jumped in swimming towards them. They were now about 75ft from the boat. I got to him, and raised him up out of the water. Stupidly, I only had on shorts...I didn't take a float, line or anything. I raised him up, so he could breath and was finning us both on the surface. He was breathing too heavy to keep his reg in, no matter what I tried to tell him or how much water was splashing in his face. As I raised him, I grabbed his inflator....nothing. Instantly I dropped one weight pocket and the next to lighten my load. I started to swim him towards the boat, and saw that the captain had thrown the rescue float!
SWEEET! I can get a tow in! I grab the float, only to realize it wasn't tied! The captain had grabbed the float and line, on a charter the day prior, some little girls must have played with the knot, not thinking what it was used for. When he tossed it, the float went, but the line was still by his feet. No biggie, grab the float and give it to the victim so I can swim. He is EXTREMELY out of breath now. When pulling him in, he was getting some water in his mouth, and was so exhausted from kicking to stay alive before I got to him. Regardless of my attempts to get him to keep his reg in, he is not doing it and is breathing REALLY hard..probably harder than the reg could supply. He is struggling with the float, and flopping everywhere with it. I took it back and proceeded to swim in. We got to the back of the boat, and took him out of his BC and got him on board. I couldn't inflate it sooner, as I was trying to keep him out of the water, and all this happened within seconds, so we were getting back to the boat ASAP.
When on the boat, it took him about 45 minutes to fully recover and get his color back. We kept asking questions to make sure he was still with us mentally. After I caught my breath, and keeping the whole boat from panicking, I looked at his gear. His inflator was never fully on the bc adapter. So, he could never put air in the BC. Had he not manually inflated his bc when entering the water, he could have spotted the problem early on and fixed the hose.
Well, if you remember, he WAS wearing a drysuit....Why didn't he just push the inflate button? "I knew I had a drysuit, I pushed the button to inflate it, and it the air just escaped the exhaust valve." So why didn't you close the valve? "I knew I could, but in my panic, I just couldn't think how to do it....I froze."
Thankfully, he did have ditchable weights. He wore himself out just trying to get to the surface...even though he had a full tank. When he went for his camera, all the air was squeezed from the suit and BC. On the way up, no air for the BC, and he kept losing his air in the drysuit as the valve was all the way open. I have no doubt I could have still swam him to the boat even if I couldn't ditch his weights, but it would have been a MUCH bigger task and he probably would have lost his rig when we got him out of the BC due to the extra weight and him being the primary focus.
All in all, a big eye opener....you never know what little thing may happen no matter how long you having diving or doing the same routine. A balanced and known rig is essential as the water is trying to kill you around every curve! I'm just glad I was there, and paying attention to ensure the water didn't win this time. I haven't shared this publicly, but this seemed like a decent spot to inject this incident. Hopefully this incident helps someone else....pay attention and no your gear. He had 100+ dives in a drysuit, and still couldn't think to close the valve when the $hit hit the fan
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