Diving and Epilepsy

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Hello:

We often get indignant letters asking why people who have convulsions cannot dive. The answer is fairly simple - without special equipment and a knowledgeable buddy - they will drown. In addition they will endanger the lives of others on the dive.


1. People with seizures (any kind) should not dive or drive a motor vehicle until they have met the usual criteria of seizure free periods before returning. (See #5 below)

2. US training agencies, dive operations and dive medicine organizations would be unlikely to grant clearance to dive to an individual with seizures and on anti convulsant therapy.

3. One consultant states that if you require any anticonvulsant medication, all of which to a greater or lesser extent effect level of consciousness and information-processing speed, the response must be negative.

4. Dr. Carl Edmonds writes that there are epileptogenic provocations associated with diving (nitrogen narcotic effect, oxygen toxic effect, ?CO2, and the immersion effects). There is a frequent observation that the first epileptic attack encountered
by divers often develops during a dive.

5. A knowledgeable UK diving physician provides this information from the UK Sport Diving Medical Committee. There should be no diving until off medication and entirely free of seizures for three years. Diving while on medication is not advised.

Finally, one must recognize that there are situations and 'triggers' that will cause you to be more at risk for convulsions accompanied by unconsciousness. The additive effect of nitrogen narcosis, even at shallow depths could be dangerous. Increased partial pressures of oxygen can cause seizures and there is a risk of oxygen toxicity lowering the seizure threshold of an epileptic. Hyperventilation is a known seizure trigger and occurs frequently in anxious diver or divers who have to exert themselves physically.

There is a real danger of drowning with a seizure. The regulator falls out of the mouth, there is a sudden intake of water into the lungs and the diver drowns. Compounding this is the fact that the diver then has to ascend in the water column - subjecting him/her to pulmonary barotrauma and gas embolism.

Our consultant, Bruce Miller, MD points out this succinct passage in Bove's 'Medical Examination of Sport Scuba Divers', 3rd edition, p.27; "Because of the risk of drowning and the serious risk to would-be rescuers, seizure disorders are absolutely disqualifying for diving, regardless of control by anticonvulsant medication."
 
ScubaDoc, Doc Vikingo -

It seems that about once a month, someone posts a thread asking if it is ok to dive if they have medical condition XYZ. This post is rapidly followed up by divers with no medical background responding "absolutely not" and then one diver saying "I dive with XYZ, so let's be a little more open minded" or "I know a person with condition XYZ who successfully dives and isn't he/she so brave to overcome a disability." Somewhere in the middle of this exchange, one or more diving docs opine on the generic risks of diving with XYZ and then support it with the opinion of another medical writer and/or a certifying agency. And then I suggest that the original person with XYZ speak with a diving doc (not his/her original specialist who diagnosed XYZ) to assess the particular risks associated with the special mix of symptom that he/she uniquely presents, because each person's particular situation is DIFFERENT!

Just as old edict of "asthma is an absolute contradiction to diving" faded with today's enlightenment re different severities and etiologies of asthma, doesn't it seem reasonable to recognize that the mere label of epilepsy warrants individualized risk assessment (rather than absolute contradictions), especially in light of the fact that GPs and neurologists alike drop the epilepsy label on top of a lot of conditions that are not epilepsy.

And there is a tendency to ignore the "accomodations" that the diver may have established to address some of the risks. This particular diver had communication systems and a trained buddy. Does this mean he is risk-free? Of course not. But I don't see the diving doc community or the certifying agencies recommending that smokers, whose lungs have been primed to create respiratory complications, be banned from diving.

You can drape yourself in medical terminology all you want, but the logical extrapolation of your assessment is that all people diagnosed with epilepsy should dig a hole in the ground and bury themselves. As you scoff with indignation, the person diagnosed with epilepsy might fall in the shower and crack open his/her skull, so showering is absolutely contraindicated? They could black out walking down a flight of stairs, so they should never go above the first floor of a building? They could have a seizure while eating, which would create a number of potentially serious problems, so they should never eat?

And citing the policy of a certifying agency is absolute folly! Certifying agencies do not practice medicine, they are self-serving agents of the dive INDUSTRY. Yes, they may assemble physicians for task forces, but those task forces are practicing policy-making, not patient-specific medicine.

Am I saying every person with epilepsy is safe to dive? Of course not! Am I saying that I wouldn't think it important to know that a potential dive buddy has epilepsy? Of course not! It actually strikes me as ironic that in times of old, some physicians recommended that individuals with epilepsy be treated by dunking them in water for an extended period of time; and today you would ban these same individuals from the water. I might be tempted to draw some comparison re the medical use of leeches in days of old, but leeches are staging a comeback in some circles.

Individuals with all different types of disabilities thrive on meaningful leisure and adventure activities, selecting a given activity mindful of the risks associated with their particular condition and deficits. Some blind individuals ski, parachute, and dive. Some spinal cord survivors and individuals with mobility limitations may dive. To the venerable and valued physicians on this board, I make the request that you focus your remarks on helping any individual assess the risks he/she may be taking in view of his/her PERSONAL array of symptoms and the strategies that lessen the risk if he/she decides to pursue diving.
 
AllenG--Your last paragraph would,IMHO, be tantamount to asking the docs to practice medicine over the internet. The nature of dive agency policies and any recommendations made by any physicians as to the appropriateness of anyone diving is based on liability.

As for people diving with XYZ conditions that is something that should be done based on an actual face to face hands on evaluation of the individual by a physcian competent to make that assessment.

I do agree that individuals with XYZ conditions should have the option of pursuing whatever recreational activities they want as long as the risks involved can be brought to an acceptable level through equipment or technique or extra support personnel if needed.
 
As some of you have mentioned, an individual has a right to take risks with their life that they consider reasonable.

You mentioned flying with an instructor pilot in the copilot seat as a safety pilot, and I don't have a problem with that, nor does the FAA, apparently.

You describe a situation in SCUBA where you wear a full face mask, presumably securely strapped on, and you have a buddy that you have communications with so I'm assuming he has similar gear. That strikes me as a reasonable accomodation to mitigate the known risks.

If a diver with a "disability" makes intelligent and reasonable accomodations to that disability to reduce their risk, and he/she and his buddy and their physician/medical adviser are comfortable with the risks and accomodations, I don't have a problem with that.

It is always important to remember, however, that in SCUBA, any excess risk affects not only the person taking that risk and his or her buddy, it affects the safety of all potential rescue persons in the area.

This applies just as much to a diver who is fit but knowingly practices high-risk diving practices as it does to a diver with a "disability" who dives with increased risk.

There is some risk in all diving. We need to assess the risk on each dive, take steps to minimize risk, and be aware that the consequences of a bad event will not affect just you and your buddy, but a whole bunch of other people.
Minimize risks not only for your sake, but for theirs, also.

If the risk is high, think twice, for the other people's sake.

Dive safe,
John Reinertson
 
JBD - I must certainly agree with you that it would be inappropriate for a physician or any other health care professional to "treat" an individual patient over the Internet and if I left that impression that I might otherwise condone or even encourage such practice, I do apologize. As someone who has spent the past 25 years helping individuals with disabilities to do things, perhaps I get a little annoyed when I see my colleagues engaged in over-generalizations that undercut individuals with disabilities . . .

And Dr. Reinertson, thanks for the well articulated and balanced assessment!
 
Wingflyer 152,

How about a little different “take” on your position? Have you ever had to rescue a diver at depth? I can tell you that I have, on two occasions, and it leaves a very deep impression on both the victim and the rescuer. The odds are as much as 50% that both divers will drown. Neither one of these divers were my buddies.

As much as I believe in using the buddy system, I also believe that every diver should be proficient with self-extrication. He is ultimately responsible to himself. Do not EXPECT that your buddy will be the rescuer. Most likely, it will be someone else and if that happens, that person may not know what your problem is and how you got that way.

Since when did scuba diving become a right. It is a privilege. You are granted a certificate after training and passing all tests and requirements, including medical. Just like driving a car. It is a privilege to have a driver’s license—after passing the tests, eye exams and medical questions. If you believe you have this RIGHT, then you are full of c—p!

I was in college in the “60’s. It was a time of hippies, flower power, and drugs. The mantra was that everyone should have the right to do anything they wanted as long as it didn’t affect someone else. Well’ let me tell you, unless you lived as a hermit in Montana, there is NOTHING you do that doesn’t affect others, be it family, friends or strangers. You have absolutely NO RIGHT to ram you ideas down my throat and your actions may very well affect my life or well being.

I suppose you also drive a car without the seat belts on and motorcycle without a helmet. If you participate in an activity that has increased risk, you have no right to have others suffer the consequences. The trauma rooms are full of these people. They drive drunk, motorcycle without helmets, etc. They end up in public hospitals and often end up having their medical treatment paid for by tax dollars—something everyone contributes to. That affects me!

I commend you wish and ability to participate in a sport normally left to people with less medical problems. I do not agree that you have any right to put others at risk. If I were on a boat with you I would welcome you advising me that you have epilepsy and it would not deter me from trying to help if you become incapacitated. However, never think that your problem is yours alone when diving.

Finally, I harbor no prejudice toward you and other people with disabilities. I admire those who are able to overcome those problems. However, putting others at risk is not a proper strategy for you to do your thing because your thing DOES put others at risk. All the medical providers in this forum know that their first duty is to Do No Harm. It is about time that others like you realize that they have that same obligation too.

Respectfully,


Laurence Stein, DDS


:box:
 
This is an internet message board. Saying a particular person can dive, which is contrary to the general consensus of the medical community, would be practicing medicine on the internet, which is not only illegal, it is dangerous. The original question was about diving and epilepsy. Can a person with epilepsy dive? To me, it looks like Mike was asking about the general concensus of the medical community. He did NOT give details about his friend's condition. He did NOT ask if people thought his friends should be allowed to dive. The general consensus among the medical community was given by Doc V and scubadoc. They quoted respected texts and posted links from websites. They put time and effort and expertiese into their posts, and then they got flamed and called "losers" for posting exactly what was requested. I think this is extremely unfair, and I am kind of surprised that the regulators didn't jump in or at least comment.

But let's leave that aside for the moment. For the sake of discussion, let's say that certain people with seizure disorder may have the privilage (I truly believe it is a privelage and not a right) of diving provided adequate precautions including special equipment are put to use. Do you think that this means all diving shops become required to be equipped with such specialized equipment during certification, or would the divers with seizure disorder be required to provide the equipment themselves? I am assuming that the equipment mentioned by wingflyer 152 in his post would be much more costly than standard regs and masks of the same performance. Would dive shops running cert courses be required to own and maintain, or at least have access to, such equipment for training purposes?
 
As you have pointed out the original question was answered with valid medical advice based on scienfice medical evidence.

Wingflyer 152 has allowed his personal agenda color the realities of diving with this condition. In the process he also managed to change the focus of this discussion.

Until the scientific evidence says otherwise, like it has for asthma, the only prudent advice is not to dive. That said, Wingflyer can do anything he wants to. He is an adult and knows the risks. However, he better become proficient in getting himself out of trouble when the time comes. Oh! What's that you said, you go limp and would not be able to remove the regulator from your mouth or press the inflator button--naaa, that's not scary! Pretty soon he will accuse himself of failing to have saved himself and if he survives, he may then blame his buddy or non-responsible 3rd parties for failure to rescue him in a time of need.

Does his buddy realize the jepordy he has put himself into? This is a disaster waiting to happen. Telling others that they are unsymathetic to his disability is hogwash. I doubt that anyone reading this thread actually wishes that this person shouldn't dive and we even give him high marks for his moxie but it doesn't change anything. He is also engaged in a very masculine behavior--denial. It keeps men away from the doctor for check ups, it leads to preventive measures in treatment for cardiac symptoms and it leads to the spread of malignancies far beyond a stage when it is treatable.

Again, Respectfully,


Laurence Stein
 
Stein,

Exactly who are you to give PROFESSIONAL advice about diving? Arent you a dentist? A dentist is not any more trained about diving and epilepsy than a man on the moon. Sorry for the attitude, but you started it by saying that I was full of crap.
You said that the odds are 50% that both divers will drown during a rescue situation at depth. How many times do I have to explain that this is physically impossible???? The only way it can happen is if you run out of air. You saying scuba diving is a right and not a privilege, this is exactly what I am talking about people trying to make diving sound "elite." Trust me, I do things sophisticated far beyond the bounds of diving, and it is in no way as "elite" and as sophisticated as many people try to make it sound. The day you are brought to your knees by something that you cannot control, the day that you wake up and cannot drive, realizing that your life dream of being a pilot that you have attained has been taken from you and you will never get it back, when that day happens to you then, one day you can tell me about what is a privilege and what is a responsibility. Also, to sunfish.....It is definately something that needs more study...that question of would the diveshops have to have the masks is something that would need to be found out with research. Also, yeah the masks were expensive, but I want to dive, and dive SAFELY, so that is something I had to buy. Take Care all.

Love,
Wingflyer152
 
Dear Wingflyer152,

First, my sincerest apologies for the use of crap in the post. It was meant a figure of speach but it was inappropriate. You are right. I'm sorry.

I'd like to answer your question about what a dentist has to do with epilepsy. I have a number of patients who have seizure disorders. All dentists do and part of our training is the emergency treatment to provide to them.

No, a dentist does not treat seizure disorders and if I had them I would want a physician to see me. Given a choice though, I would want an ER physican, paramedic, or neurologist to provide treatment.

The reason why I mention that I have participated in dive rescues, is that I have first hand experience with these emergencies, which, in general, are usually a chain of events that lead toward a disaster. Following the disaster, the chain may continue and further consequences may follow. These can also be disasterous.

In both of emergencies I participated in...out of air emergencies, the victims had to use a source of air other than their own. Had the victim been you, your full face mask would have been useless. The stress of the situation, the hypoxia, could have triggered a seizure. Your little safety cocoon would not exist. I know from personal life experience that the first thing you or any other diver would do if out of air, is to remove their regulator or, in your case, a full face mask in an effort to get to another source of air. What would you do then? Your solution for your disability addresses only one aspect of what can happen. I am certain that there are other scenerios that would render your full face mask unworkable.

I hope you see my point. I give you a great deal of credit for overcoming your disablility. Divers are NOT elite. It's just a sport. Something to have fun at and explore this world. View its diversity and beauty. Anyone who makes it competetive and elitist is stupid. To assume that divers, certifing agencies, dive boats and dive shops are somehow behaving elite is wrong. Until they have scientific evidence that a fool proof work around is available, seizures (and until families of those who perish or are injured for life stop filing law suits) and diving do not really mix. That being said, enjoy yourself and its a beautiful world out there.



Respectfully, and with sincerest apologies,

Laurence Stein--just a tooth doc.
 

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