Diving ages

[Altamira]

I do not know Tom (TMHeimer) personally, but his posts are logical and make sense. I do not believe he was advocating not allowing people to dive until they are @ 20 years old. His point was that divers have a lifetime of diving ahead of them, even starting at age 20, so there should be no big rush to put a child age 11 or 12 through a cert course. It is not that a 12 year old is incapable of learning to dive, but whether they could be the dive buddy you would want to have if you have a problem. I got my grandson Jr OW certified at age 12, and he was technically very good, but I knew that if there was a problem, it would be up to me to sort it out. If I had to do it again, I would have waited a couple more years, and I likely would have had a lighter task load while diving with him. Kids do dumb stuff under the best of circumstances, and being underwater just adds an unforgiving environment.

 

[northernone]

If there's science regarding hyperbaric exposure 40ft vs 60ft for 11 vs 12 year olds I'd be fascinated to learn about it.

@DogDiver thank you for mentioned growth plates, I'll read up more in this direction.

Maturity, ability and developmental growth is quite individualized, I've had very young divers do very well.

It's an equally interesting subject to ask what age a child should be able to hunt (handle a gun or other killing methods etc) ...that answer too varies widely by culture.

...my own childhood near misses diving do cause me pause and have helped formulate my mindset as I pass diving on to the younger ones.

Cameron

 

[MichaelMc]

I got my grandson Jr OW certified at age 12, and he was technically very good, but I knew that if there was a problem, it would be up to me to sort it out

Beyond the growth plates, I think this is a key point.

Asking a 12-14 year old to respond well in crisis and rescue their buddy is a lot. I'm sure some can, but it is a lot to ask.

It seems like to dive with a junior diver, you should be a solo level diver yourself, so you do not give them problems, and well trained to rescue them or head off problems, if that need arises. Essentially, you're being a DM or dive guide. Otherwise, wait. Or do very very limited dives.

 

[TMHeimer]

GlennL, Yes, of course I have no problem with someone age 18 taking OW, or as I said, perhaps as young as 15.
To further support what JamesBon mentioned earlier, MichaelMc's post uses the word "rescue". There are no specifics mentioned in the PADI OW manual (mine of 2005 anyway) regarding such things as rescuing a panicked diver. Yes, it says to calm the diver down, establish buoyancy, etc.--but not included in the OW course is exactly how to do that--or a number of other things. In fact, CPR is not an OW requirement. So, dad and daughter, newly certified buddy up. OK, dad is a Master Instructor. The Master Instructor gets in trouble. Now, daughter steps up with her OW course "rescue" training?
Maybe dad dies? Daughter lives with that.

 

[BenjaminF]

Beyond the growth plates, I think this is a key point.

Asking a 12-14 year old to respond well in crisis and rescue their buddy is a lot. I'm sure some can, but it is a lot to ask.

It seems like to dive with a junior diver, you should be a solo level diver yourself, so you do not give them problems, and well trained to rescue them or head off problems, if that need arises. Essentially, you're being a DM or dive guide. Otherwise, wait. Or do very very limited dives.

Are you sure that the average 20 year old will be able to step up and perform the rescue? I personally think that that particular argument is fairly weak.

 

[MichaelMc]

Not much you can do about Master instructor, accustomed to supervising students alone, has heart attack while diving with junior diver, aka a version of student. Short of that, the master instructor should not be getting in trouble underwater. Master instructor, or solo and rescue quals, is a big step up from OW parent buddies with junior diver, runs out of air, and panics, child panics, and it all goes to hell. Not saying OP is an OW parent, but in general.

On the 20 yr. old, not everyone is suited to be a diver. But more 20 yr. olds are than 14 yr. olds. And there is some truth to we trust 18 year olds to drive, marry, and fight in wars. We do not with 14 year olds.

Edit: a brief perusal of pilot ages for the U.S. suggests that you can learn at any age but can not solo (no instructor with you) until 14 for ballon or glider, and 16 for airplane, and must wait until 17 for your private pilots certificate. Solo in an airplane sounds a lot like 'able to handle it when **** happens'.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't have your experience with teaching large numbers of children but what I can say from my experience of teaching scuba is that I agree that 12 is too young. Personally I'm not happy teaching any student under the age of 14.

Case in point. My own daughter. She wanted to learn to dive from the time she was old enough to tell me. Around the time she turned 12 I started taking her into the pool with me and did that for quite a while. She dove in the pool regularly but I didn't start "training" her in a formal sense until she was 14. I took my time with it and finally certified her just after she turned 16, IIRC.

Obviously you can't go through that for every student but it was formative for me as an instructor. If I wasn't willing -- in the LEAST -- to start formally training my own child at the age of 12 then I would be a 5 star idiot to agree to train someone else's kid at that age. My comfort zone is 14.

R..

It varies with the child. I just came off a Socorros trip with a father and his 13 year old daughter. And for the most part we were diving in pretty advanced conditions. The kid was an amazing diver ... and in many ways more mature than some adults I know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think JamesBon92007 makes the best point. Everything is fine for probably a good % of very young divers unless something causes a serious situation. On "age" threads before someone mentioned that Dad (or Mom) and 12 year old child can be certified same class and dive as buddies on dive #1. The kid panics and the parent is a rookie. Or worse, the parent dies and the kid is unable to rescue him/her. Sorry to drum up this old stuff, but it's a subject I've thought a lot about over time.

We had this exact scenario happen locally a few years back. Mom and son got certified, then immediately signed up for a trip to Fiji. The dive shop sponsors a "group dive" at a local dive site to give the new divers on the trip a dive or two before heading to Fiji. Only problem is that group dives are a very bad idea in our area, due to chronically low vis and a high potential for separation. Sure enough, mom and son drop down, can't find anybody else, and due to a lack of experience they got separated from each other. Nobody really knows what happened next, but mom surfaced briefly in a panic, and was later found laying on the bottom dead ... the kid gets to live with that for the rest of his life ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[NAM001]

Why do you think such restrictions might be arbitrary?

How many threads are there dealing with 60' for OW's as being ONLY A RECOMMENDATION and not a limit. I think his question is perfectly reasonable.

 

[TMHeimer]

Are you sure that the average 20 year old will be able to step up and perform the rescue? I personally think that that particular argument is fairly weak.

I agree with what MichaelMc said about it being a lot to ask a 12-14 year old to perform a rescue, though I'm sure some could. Also that it only makes sense for a seasoned diver (rather than a newbie) to buddy with a young one.
I would not know of the rescue abilities of an average 20 year old--unless I knew he/she was Rescue certified and/or maybe had hundreds of dives. But, I'd put my money on the "wiseguy/jackass" 20 year old over the "very mature" 12 year old.
OTOH, though I disagree with the whole Jr. OW certification for those under 15, I do think that since that is the case, the offering of Jr. Rescue Diver course is a plus. I think that is offered, anyway--or maybe it's just Jr. Master Diver? If not offered, it should be.
Knowing the proper rescue techniques at least means you have the means to save someone--doesn't mean you will perform those skills well enough to do that. I have yet to be in that position myself, so who really knows if I could rescue a panicked diver?