Diving after smoking cessation

[dmaziuk]

My nephew quit smoking and started vaping instead. Some people including myself, would think that's just switching one bad habit for another. But I have since changed my opinion on that. When he was smoking, I never really saw him coughing up much other than a morning smoker's cough kind of thing. When he switched to vaping, he was having coughing fits all day long for weeks and I thought "sheesh, this is worse", until I realized what was happening. After about 3 months, I never saw him cough again. It seems that the vape fluid was loosening up the surface crud in his lungs and was helping moving it out through coughing. Basically, it seemed to be expediting the process. Now with that said, there's also chemicals in vape juice that are bad as well. He has since switched to an all natural and organic juice maker, and one that has none of that "PG" stuff in it.

FWIW (and OT) I would be very afraid of vaping that stuff: chemicals in those liquids are at best no better than tar and soot from the real thing. For anyone considering this, vape the actual tobacco: you need a "herbs" vaporizer that runs hot enough, it'll cost more than e-cigs but your lungs will thank you later.

 

[Alucard483]

I can testify that many smokers (my friends or my students) did dive within these limits (50m, air, with deco) without any trouble, and I did not find any correlation between the occurrence of accidents with smoking. Accidents are instead strongly correlated with stupidity, arrogance and lack of compliance to safety rules.

See, this is exactly what my initial opinion was, but I felt it prudent to get feedback from actual divers just in case. Thank you sir, you are a true gent. Although I still plan on sticking to kicking the habit, this really helps put my mid to ease.

You must also accept some sort of Pareto principle: 80% of people can be successfully trained and certified for diving to 20m, but just 20% of people can be trained and certified for diving at 80m.
In all my life I did meet only TWO divers who were safe diving beyond 100m.

Again, EXACTLY the type of thing I need to know. It may just be a lack of reputable sources or someone just doing the the best they can to sell all the courses they can, but when I first looked into everything I knew that I would want a more advanced cert in order to see what I wanted to see. The link I had followed kept going on and on about how any diver that is serious has a tech cert so they can mix gasses and just stay under longer and go a bit deeper than rec divers. It was made out to be like "only vacationers who will only dive once get a basic cert, and an advanced cert is just a few extra classes, so most vacationers do that too and get multiple certs all in one weekend trip. But if you plan on having any sort of fun you NEED to sign up for our tech course" and the requirements was like a super low 18-20 dives with at least ten of them being to at least 40m. I had no idea 100m was even considered "that deep" and was going to be considered a huge challenge with lots of training required. And like I said before, if 100m just isn't in the cards (wither in 9 months or nine years), I have no problem being real with myself if it will save my life, there is still a ton of other cool stuff to see at much more reasonable depths.

 

[RobPNW]

FWIW (and OT) I would be very afraid of vaping that stuff: chemicals in those liquids are at best no better than tar and soot from the real thing. For anyone considering this, vape the actual tobacco: you need a "herbs" vaporizer that runs hot enough, it'll cost more than e-cigs but your lungs will thank you later.

I doubt this is accurate although neither of us has proof otherwise. But the idea that he could be vaping food grade VG and natural organic flavors and somehow that's worse then inhaling tar, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, combustion gases, and the burning 100s and 100s of chemicals in cigarettes, doesn't pass the common sense test for me.

 

[dmaziuk]

I doubt this is accurate although neither of us has proof otherwise. But the idea that he could be vaping food grade VG and natural organic flavors and somehow that's worse then inhaling tar, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, combustion gases, and the burning 100s and 100s of chemicals in cigarettes, doesn't pass the common sense test for me.

I'm sure if chronic "well tolerated mild inflammation" from breathing PG mist results in lung cancer 20 years later, the patient will be happy to know they didn't get it from smoking.

Vaping propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine may lead to lung inflammation

Researchers have found that using e-cigarettes with the e-liquid refills containing propylene glycol (PG) and vegetable glycerine (VG) may lead to inflammation of the lungs over a period of time. The results of the study titled, “Effects of Electronic Cigarette Constituents on the Human Lung: A...

www.news-medical.net

 

[RobPNW]

I'm sure if chronic "well tolerated mild inflammation" from breathing PG mist results in lung cancer 20 years later, the patient will be happy to know they didn't get it from smoking.

Vaping propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine may lead to lung inflammation

Researchers have found that using e-cigarettes with the e-liquid refills containing propylene glycol (PG) and vegetable glycerine (VG) may lead to inflammation of the lungs over a period of time. The results of the study titled, “Effects of Electronic Cigarette Constituents on the Human Lung: A...

www.news-medical.net

If you read my post, you'll see I mentioned that he used juice that contains no PG and only natural organic ingredients. But no offense, the idea that somehow breathing burning soot from cigarettes is somehow better is insane.

 

[dmaziuk]

If you read my post, you'll see I mentioned that he used juice that contains no PG and only natural organic ingredients. But no offense, the idea that somehow breathing burning soot from cigarettes is somehow better is insane.

And what I said was pay extra for an actual herb vaporizer that will vape real tobacco and cut off the soot and tar, no burning involved.

 

[drk5036]

Again, EXACTLY the type of thing I need to know. It may just be a lack of reputable sources or someone just doing the the best they can to sell all the courses they can, but when I first looked into everything I knew that I would want a more advanced cert in order to see what I wanted to see. The link I had followed kept going on and on about how any diver that is serious has a tech cert so they can mix gasses and just stay under longer and go a bit deeper than rec divers. It was made out to be like "only vacationers who will only dive once get a basic cert, and an advanced cert is just a few extra classes, so most vacationers do that too and get multiple certs all in one weekend trip. But if you plan on having any sort of fun you NEED to sign up for our tech course" and the requirements was like a super low 18-20 dives with at least ten of them being to at least 40m. I had no idea 100m was even considered "that deep" and was going to be considered a huge challenge with lots of training required. And like I said before, if 100m just isn't in the cards (wither in 9 months or nine years), I have no problem being real with myself if it will save my life, there is still a ton of other cool stuff to see at much more reasonable depths.

30 meters is deep. 40 meters is very deep. 100 meters is "probably 1 out of every 20,000 trained divers ever hits this depth"-type deep.

Basically, when people talk about tech diving, its a nice way of saying "if you screw this up, you are likely to do harm to yourself (or worse)". Keep that in mind while processing all this! On a dive that we would refer to as a "recreational dive", you always have the option of ending the dive at any time and swimming to the surface with low chance of running into a problem. Anything that falls under "technical diving" loses that option. You have to be able to solve the problem and overcome the consequences of the problem, with no means of escape to open air. Therefore, it takes significant training. I wouldn't expect someone who has never dove before to be able to attempt a 100 meter dive safely in less than, maybe 3 years?

 

[Guille G]

The idea that “to have any real fun you NEED a tech course” is simply not true. Some of the nicest, most fun dives I’ve had were shallower than 10m. Endless NDL, loooooong air time, warmth, plenty of light to make the colors around you pop… and you barely need to worry about anything other than the pretty fish and coral.

I’d go as far as saying that tech is only “fun” for a specific type of person/diver, but it is probably a horrible experience for many perfectly capable divers.

I am not a tech diver and would only go that route if I moved somewhere where the actual dives called for it. There wouldn’t be so many “rec only” divers with 1000+ dives above 40 m if it wasn’t fun. So don’t buy into whoever is selling you that!!

 

[Alucard483]

30 meters is deep. 40 meters is very deep. 100 meters is "probably 1 out of every 20,000 trained divers ever hits this depth"-type deep.

Oh, wow, I had no idea I was setting my sights so high. But it will be something I would like to work towards.

 

[BoltSnap]

Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement on quitting. And as someone said earlier I can put all that smoking money into diving and training.

I really do understand the inherent risk and the science behind the reasoning. Nobody wants a pocket of air to burst their lung, but at the same time I feel like this is kind of akin to driving overly aggressive in traffic. Sure, there is ALWAYS that inherent risk of collision, and driving in such a manner DOES increase that risk, but simply driving aggressive does not mean that you will absolutely crash and die. I am not trying to be cocky, disrespectful or insulting, its just that I often notice that the "rules" (and not just for diving) are often written in a VERY black and white perspective that bars people from doing things over POSSIBLE outcomes rather than certain outcomes. I'm not trying to cheat the system, I am just trying to get a clean perspective from honest people that don't have any skin in it themselves. If you ask a doctor about drugs you will get a different answer than the one from the drug dealer, and a different one than that of the actual user. And like we have seen earlier in this thread, in some countries, a lot of divers smoke. I am just trying to find out how much of this is actually true, versus some "reefer madness" type warning over the possible outcomes.

And again, I do understand the science and that the risk increases with depth, so at the end of the day, if 100m is just not doable, I can live with that. I am just viewing it like this, I have a sports car, I drive it at 100-110 on the regular which just so happens to be against the rules and gives of a certain risk factor, but I would consider doing 200mph to much of a risk even though professional drivers do it all the time. Tech diving is anything deeper than 45m correct? I am viewing being a smoker diving to a wreck at 55-65m akin to driving driving 20mph over the speed limit. What I am trying to figure out here is if a 100m would figuratively be doing 200mph on a public road.


Im 32 and have been smoking daily for about 12 years. I smoked lightly in high school and college but it picked up at work. I am a chef and sadly most of the time you do not get a break unless it is to smoke. I started because I was the only one on the whole shift that was never allowed a break. I would say I smoke about 2 packs a WEEK?


Can you name some of these challenges I will need to overcome? I know there will be things like decompression stops and additional certs for things like gas mixing, but I would love if you could detail anything critical that I have most likely failed to consider. Also, I do assume you mean quit smoking, not give up on my dreams of diving a wreck? Or are you giving me a legit warning that I should not be investing myself and money into this because I will absolutely fail?

You want to take advice about drug use from drug dealers and addicts but not from a doctor?

This attitude and you aren't a diver yet? If I had a penny for every prospective diver who wants to go to 100m before he even started his basic course, I'd be a very rich man.