Diving Accident, Self-Responsibility and Balance

[Wookie]

Wrong. 80% and below is when impairment and organ failure occurs.



No. The video CLEARLY shows that you were thrashing hard. That camera was waving around very, very fast.



No...it wasn't. This is increasingly becoming your line; as you seek to deny what happened and find a medical excuse. You are not qualified to diagnose yourself. You displayed EVERY indication of a panicked diver, however.


Who said anything about leaving anyone to die??? But, if you take Rescue training, you'll know that one of the courses of action for a panicked diver at the surface IS to let themselves wear themself out, THEN rescue them.



No. Oxygen is a placebo in a panic attack like this. Attacking the dive crew for a quick fumble and then you sucking down their O2 is not helpful.


They had adequate O2! They did hook it up right! You're just over-complaining and sucked up all the O2.

The other possibility is that the crew remembered that O2 will do nothing for you in a panic attack and turned it off and restowed it. You know, in case they had a real emergency that needed it.


And there's your first point of failure on this dive. You violated your training by not having a buddy, and you were not trained and equipped for solo diving. 'Following the DM' is NOT a valid dive plan.



That non-diver didn't know what he was seeing; he was too busy worrying about his wife- YOU. The DMs did everything right. A quick mistake does not mean they failed or had trouble.

You're reduced yourself to self diagnosis of EIB and blaming the DMs. Not quite the 'self-responsibility' that the thread is titled with.





And you're clearly not a Doctor. I consulted with one; my sister. She said that 85% is really low, but that the person could still function. It is NOT a 'significantly impaired level.', nor was she in a 'world of medical hurt'.

Remember, the clinic did NOTHING to treat her except let her hoover up some of their O2, and calm down. Oxygen is nothing more than a placebo in Panic cases. She self-diagnosed herself with EIB, probably after reading the internet that night.


Exactly. I learned this same lesson from a SF medic in Afghanistan. Don't automatically trust a pulse-ox. They're usually good and reliable; but a variety of things can throw them off. Cold will make them read lower (vasioconstriction), and alcohol or heat will read higher (vasiodilation).

My sister told me that a panic can also trigger vasioconstriction. Panic was clearly present here.


Agreed. As well; there was no 12 minutes until she was 'rescued'. I quit the video after about 5 minutes. She was on the boat then for at least a minute. She weren't that far from the boat, and the current wasn't that strong.

Thea; You panicked. It happens. Find the cause, get some additional training, quit smoking, get checked out and dive again.

This has gotten personal, and she said she was seeing a doctor. We all have to live with ourselves, and this is not an intervention. Step back, have a cocktail. Maybe 2. Breathe deep, and let it go.

 

[RickyF]

I don't believe that it really matters whether the problem was due to panic, overexertion or a medical issue. The problem was that she was out of control to the point she could not or did not inflate her BCD and keep the regulator in her mouth. I am sure she probably also had a few mouthfuls of seawater which didn't help. It is very disconcerting to be in a position where as hard as you try, you can't make any headway. I had a similar situation when I came up over the side of the Spiegel Grove and got completely blown off the wreck with no chance of getting back to it. It does happen even to the best of us. The way we respond to the situation makes all the difference. If you exhaust yourself trying to make headway in a current or surge that you have no chance of making it, it can lead to exhaustion, hyperventilation and the feeling that you are starving for air.
She definitely needs to get a good physical to rule out anything physical, but the important fact is that she survived and hopefully learned a valuable lesson.

 

[T.C.]

This has gotten personal, and she said she was seeing a doctor. We all have to live with ourselves, and this is not an intervention. Step back, have a cocktail. Maybe 2. Breathe deep, and let it go.

Eh; you're right. She's not listening anyway; more concerned about shifting the blame.

 

[MMM]

Hello. Years ago I had a somewhat similar incident, although I was not in any medical stress. I entered a very short swim through in heavy surge, behind two other divers who became in deep, deep trouble...including lost masks, fins, ripped wetsuits, torn BCs etc, etc. They exited, with assistance, in shock. I exited a bit shaken but unharmed. I spent a lot of time thinking about it afterwards and what I should have done differently.

My big takeaway was that I should not have gone into the swim through in those heavy surge conditions, despite the DMs having told me it was perfectly safe. My second was that I was much fitter than the two divers ahead of me. I decided not to fight the surge (tucked my head and arms) and just let it carry me until it let go. In any battle with strong surge, I decided I probably would lose. (The injured divers decided to fight it, bracing themselves against the walls). And my final takeaway was "remain calm". I remember getting thrown to the surface (still in the swim through with lots of air between me and the surface and spaces in the rocks with sun shining through) like you, and calmly making sure I hadn't broken any bones, had no gashes, and all my equipment was functioning and having lots of air. And then thinking through my options of how to exit.

But, like you, did rattle me and it took me a while to process it. Since the second phrase of this forum is "lessons learned" I would be curious what you have learned? One guess is that you could have called the dive a lot sooner and indicated to your buddy that you wanted to surface. But it sometimes takes getting pushed hard to learn your limit. So taking it back one step further, you learned the line you won't cross in future?

 

[Mike]

Hello. Years ago I had a somewhat similar incident, although I was not in any medical stress. I entered a very short swim through in heavy surge, behind two other divers who became in deep, deep trouble...including lost masks, fins, ripped wetsuits, torn BCs etc, etc. they exited, with assistance, in shock. I exited a bit shaken but unharmed. I spent a lot of time thinking about it afterwards and what I should have done differently. My big takeaway was that I should not have gone into the swim through in those heavy surge conditions, despite the DMs having told me it was perfectly safe. My second was that I was much fitter than the two divers ahead of me. I decided not to fight the surge (tucked my head and arms) and just let it carry me until it let go. In any battle with strong surge, I decided I probably would lose. And my final takeaway was "remain calm". I remember getting thrown to the surface (still in the swim through with lots of air between me and the surface and spaces in the rocks with sun shining through) like you, and calmly making sure I hadn't broken any bones, had no gashes, and all my equipment was functioning and having lots of air. And then thinking through my options of how to exit.

But, like you, did rattle me and it took me a while to process it. Since the second phrase of this forum is "lessons learned" I would be curious what you have learned? One guess is that you could have called the dive a lot sooner and indicated to your buddy that you wanted to surface. But it sometimes takes getting pushed hard to learn your limit. So taking it back one step further, you learned the line you won't cross in future?

Good points Marg.

The lessons to be learned I think will take her a long time to really accept as their is a combination of denial and a large lacking of knowledge of basic scuba safety. The blatant disregard for acknowledging that she was solo diving without the training or equipment, instead of buddy diving and her downplay of the importance of it. The OP has basically swept this issue away with a total disregard of it.

You're supposed to dive your experience level, and your training. The 3rd one should be capabilities and I think that's the one that got her bad. She grossly has been over-estimating her capabilities because she has grown complacent like many divers are liable to do, only seeing the next dives difficulties based on what she has dived before. All it took was some surge, a forced shallow depth at the end of the dive that she couldn't keep from corking to the surface and all the stuff she has been getting away with suddenly compounded, the lack of physical fitness, smoking, drinking etc, combined with task overloading and splitting concentration because of taking a camera along... it's so easy to have your senses overloaded due to task loading that you can easily forget to keeping dump your BC, working that last trapped air out of it as the bottom comes up on you as you're swimming toward shore and decreases your depth, when the surge is getting you nervous, has your full attention and you're task overloaded, and in such shallow conditions you have no control in the short recovery time you have in just 8 feet of water as she did at the end of the dive. It's obvious from the video that the conditions were not extreme in the least, but what is obvious is how shallow she was, she couldn't have been in more than 8 feet of water, maybe 10 at the most.

There are lessons to learn number one she needs to re-learn she is certified to dive with a buddy not solo dive relying on the dive masters to buddy with her on the dive, as she learned they disappeared quickly at the end and she was alone when she corked to the surface, her 'buddies' were not with her, they were never her buddy, she was just complacently 'same ocean' diving solo.

As I said before she's lucky she didn't end up another missing diver, much like the one just reported on SB of the missing female diver on Bonaire this week. No buddy, nobody around to help or tell the story of what happens, easily just another mystery disappeared diver who's death gets blamed on the dive conditions or a phony down current or such.

But no matter what, I'm still super impressed that she dropped her weight belt.

 

[Mike.D]

Her profile indicates 70 dives over the last five years, OW certified and rents most of her gear (apart from mask and split fins).
Good chance this incident was a result of many contributing factors and perhaps key among them would be gear unfamiliarity and lack of recent diving experience and training.


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[TONY CHANEY]

Thea, a lot has been said and several questions / suggestions have came up during this thread. Please sit back and take in the good and weed out the bad advise. Question? Were you wearing a Pilot BC, a red weight belt and using SP regs. (Please respond as this is going somewhere...trust me). Take care Tony Chaney

 

[T.C.]

Her profile indicates 70 dives over the last five years, OW certified and rents most of her gear (apart from mask and split fins).
Good chance this incident was a result of many contributing factors and perhaps key among them would be gear unfamiliarity and lack of recent diving experience and training.


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But, she does *some* cave diving...

And she advocates "simply following the rules, training and common sense", yet dove for ~8 years without training; has done caves without the proper training (or common sense), and she claims to be "ultra safety aware"?!?


I know what Wookie said; calm down, have a drink. I think I'll start with...WHISKEY...then I'll be happy enough to dance; maybe a TANGO or a FOXTROT...

 

[Mike.D]

Ha took me a while but I get it


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[Greenjuice]

Thea, a lot has been said and several questions / suggestions have came up during this thread. Please sit back and take in the good and weed out the bad advise. Question? Were you wearing a Pilot BC, a red weight belt and using SP regs. (Please respond as this is going somewhere...trust me). Take care Tony Chaney

Well done Tony. I see it now too.


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