Diver Training: Kick-up the intensity, or not?

[tkdgodess]

I would, i would have shown up to set new records. Sounds like fun. I grew up having a swimming pool, and doing lots of sports. As an adult i took up taekwondo and competed, and i run and lift weight... Most of the students ive encountered over the last 5 years, no, many complain about helping unloading the van and carrying al63's to the pool deck, and look like ive asked them to swim in the olympics when i ask for 200 m continuous swim, no stopping. Honestly most seem to view scuba as a recreational activity like backyard Badminton or golf in a cart. Most wouldn't dive if they had to your class i think, might not be a bad thing, scuba requires way too much common sense.

 

[DCBC]

When I was younger ...H-E-Double Hockey Sticks YES! ...Now that I'm older and wiser, I want my water to be calm, clear, warm, relatively shallow and and full of colorful fish and coral. I like to go nice and slow and want an ice cold Dos Equis waiting for me back on land...so, H-E-Double Hockey Sticks NO!

LOL, yes quite a few people have that attitude as they grow older... Dos Equis... nice!

---------- Post added May 10th, 2013 at 03:46 PM ----------

... In your estimation, do you think by adding [excessive] stress you're improving someone's ability to complete the learning process?

The stress is increased gradually in consideration of the student's capabilities. Any stress that's manageable is not excessive. Unmanageable stress/anxiety is called panic.

In my opinion, the training turns out a more competent and confident diver that is capable of assuming the responsibilities of a Buddy to dive unsupervised in harsh conditions (conditions for which they have been trained).

---------- Post added May 10th, 2013 at 03:53 PM ----------

I would, i would have shown up to set new records. Sounds like fun. I grew up having a swimming pool, and doing lots of sports. As an adult i took up taekwondo and competed, and i run and lift weight... Most of the students ive encountered over the last 5 years, no, many complain about helping unloading the van and carrying al63's to the pool deck, and look like ive asked them to swim in the olympics when i ask for 200 m continuous swim, no stopping. Honestly most seem to view scuba as a recreational activity like backyard Badminton or golf in a cart. Most wouldn't dive if they had to your class i think, might not be a bad thing, scuba requires way too much common sense.

Your comments made me laugh. Some things have definitely changed, but there are still people like yourself who are up for a challenge; and still others that are disappointed if they are given a text book written for an 8th grader. It's good to know that some people still run marathons, climb mountains and aren't afraid to dive in other than ideal conditions. It refreshes my soul; thanks.

 

[Primalchrome]

I'm sure that there is something to be gained from this....physical preparedness, confidence in one's skills, chest thumping....but it looks a bit like an ego trip for rec certification. You should add steak, potato, wild turkey (neat), and a cigar after the OW dives. >grin<

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with a little ego trip sometimes. On those days that I feel like a little boost, I'm more than happy to go to open mat at the gym and roll with a few guys half my age. I'd probably do this program just for the fun of it....but I wouldn't want it to be a standard rec cert syllabus.

 

[DCBC]

... I'd probably do this program just for the fun of it....but I wouldn't want it to be a standard rec cert syllabus.

I don't think that the certification agencies would want to go in that direction for standard recreational certification. For people who want to follow-on with their training, it makes a good launching point for more advanced classes.

 

[TSandM]

I think building diver capacity to tolerate task-loading and some degree of stress is very important. I think the introductory classes now do that to a degree, with the mask skills and the gear doff and don at depth, and the breathing from a free-flowing reg. I think the reason these things don't work as well as they ought to often has to do with the instructor's unwillingness to consider a student's performance as inadequate. It is very difficult to tell a student that he hasn't met the standard for passing, and needs more work. (I know, because we recently had to do this.) I think, between the instructor's reluctance to "fail" a student, and the shop's reluctance to get a reputation for being difficult, too many people pass classes when they shouldn't have done so. (I was one of them.)

Where GUE's open water class is truly different is not in how much "stuff" is in it -- it's actually simpler in some ways than the PADI OW class. It DOES have a fitness test with (small) teeth in it, in that the swim is timed, and an underwater swim is required. But more than that, each skill has a standard the student has to meet, and a scoring system; if the student doesn't meet the criteria for a passing score, they know it and the instructor knows it, and they will not pass the class until they do. This is probably a completely unusable model in diving resort locations, where people want to get certified as quickly as possible so they can go diving . . . but by working with students until they can complete the skills required to this kind of standard, one produces much more solid divers. Doing skills "comfortably and reproducibly, in the manner of an open water diver" is subject to interpretation. If you really require folks to meet this standard, then they are solid open water divers, kind of by definition. No need to use blackout masks and breathing from tank valves. Just set standards.

 

[supergaijin]

I would like to give it a go- I'm getting to the point in my diving where I need a shake up and being put back in my place.

I personally wouldn't like to train people in such a manner. I don't see many people on vacation with the mindset to train like this. If done locally, then it may work for me. At the same time I believe there should be more emphasis on the sport of diving- and I endeavour to make it so.

I have seen way too many people diving who are badly out of shape- and yet they kick up fuss when they're not taken to the dive sites where the current is flowing; bringing in the pelagics. When they are taken there, they survive often only because of the guide.

Along with good training should come the hard truth: if you don't have the appropriate water skills, you should only be diving in very simple conditions... and most of the 'big name' animals are not found there. Diving can still be a lot of fun in simple conditions. This is where many guides are lacking IMO- they themselves are still too excited about seeing pelagics and will bring people along completely unsuited for the conditions. A good guide can make simple dives in to an unforgettable experience for divers of all levels.

 

[drrich2]

I wouldn't take it unless I had trained elsewhere to the point I thought I already could do most of the skills, since I'm often slow acquiring motor skills.

I would consider it if I were seeking an 'overtraining' program for an offspring or other treasured loved one, and wanted him/her so refined at certification that I'd be comfortable with him/her diving without me present to supervise.

This speaks to a philosophical issue broached in some other threads, like when SEI is discussed; the idea of an instructor certifying no one he wouldn't be okay with diving as his loved one's buddy. Many people are more willing to take risks themselves than they are to let an offspring take.

So, for me, no. For an athletic buddy quick to acquire knowledge and skills, or a teenager I wanted overtrained? Maybe so.

Richard.

 

[DCBC]

I would consider it if I were seeking an 'overtraining' program for an offspring or other treasured loved one, and wanted him/her so refined at certification that I'd be comfortable with him/her diving without me present to supervise. ...This speaks to a philosophical issue broached in some other threads, like when SEI is discussed; the idea of an instructor certifying no one he wouldn't be okay with diving as his loved one's buddy.

Thanks Richard, "the idea of an instructor certifying no one he wouldn't be okay with diving as his loved one's buddy," is one much older than SEI. It was the philosophy passed on to me by dive instructor (Ben Davis, NAUI 101) when I was first certified in 1965. Who knows how far it went back before that. I feel that it's a shame that it's not applied by all Instructors. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Frosty]

DCBC I get where you are coming from and PERSONALLY I would really have got into your training system.Reality is the first time I learned to dive I was taught by my father who was a recently demobbed Royal navy diver. So I was taught the "navy way"
But heres the rub. if you want people in your sport -regardless of what it happens to be you need to "feed the funnel"
This means that theres gonna be a bunch of people who are only prepared to learn the very bare minimum to try out a sport.
Those people will be stopped dead and just won't even give diving a try.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Its a good thing because the skill level of each diver will be much higher.
Its a bad thing because you will loose the biggest volume of OW divers.The dribble down effect will be dive shops closing etc etc.

 

[BluewaterSail]

I'm all for adding more diving skills, but the required fitness level I think is more than is needed for a beginner recreational diver. Some sort of fitness requirement is good, but this is overkill IMHO.