Diver Training: Kick-up the intensity, or not?

[dumpsterDiver]

This is a video of a woman 15' back from the water's edge on a calm day; tourists... This spot is loved by vacationers and is typical of Nova Scotia's 4700 miles of coastline,. Peggy's Cove Huge Wave Soaker - YouTube

Can I further derail and tell the second story? While on our honeymoon we were freediving there. Possibly Peggy’s Cove, I’m not really sure, we dove several places. We both leaped off the rocks into the water. Not difficult to do at all.

A problem with diving from rocky shores with large tidal amplitude is.. what happens when the water goes down? You can leap off a rock that looks easy to get back on, but when you come back an hour later, the water dropped a lot. Now you are looking up at possibly a vertical wall of rock. If you aren’t a penguin, this can present some difficulties…..

So we come back to the entry/exit point and there is a reasonably large swell and white foaming water in front of the rock , making visibility near zero. I patiently wait for the proper time to exit and time a particularly large incoming swell and ride it, kicking and pulling and slide on my belly onto the top of the rock. I immediately scramble to my feet before the receding wave sucks me back into the sea (which is now like a 4-5 ft drop) as the wave runs out. This is not easy, but doable when you are young and NOT wearing scuba gear and have 7 mm of foam to cushion you against the rocks.

So I stand up on the rock and begin coaching my 5 ft tall, 110-lb wife on how to repeat my little “stunt”. I am telling her to wait near the rocks, keep your arms out to protect your head and then wait for the next big wave to lift you up and ride it like body surfing onto the rock.

It takes several minutes for the next set of waves to arrive that are large enough to overtop the vertical wall of rock. She does a GREAT job, and she times an even larger wave and it just picks her up and throws her onto the rock on her belly. This wave almost knocks me off my feet as it delivers rushing water that is at least 1 foot deep on top of the big rock I am standing on. Unfortunately, I had not really looked BEHIND the big rock I was standing on. It was maybe 6 feet long and 3-4 feet wide.. However, on the OTHER (inshore) side of the rock is a large wide crevasse.

So,, this all happens much quicker than I can describe it, but she washes up onto the rock, but is unable to STOP on the rock and she just continue to ride the wave. She is washed, head-first off the back of the rock, back into the water-filled crack by the wave. She is forcefully propelled vertically downward into this crack. I am standing there in amazement, looking down into the crack.

She is GONE. All I see is white foam and swirling water. Zero visibility with the white foam and bubbles. The thoughts race through my mind at a terrible pace and I am ashamed to admit that I am thinking at light speed about how I am going to explain to her mother (and then mine, as well) how I killed her on our honeymoon. Within a moment, I sense the urgency of the situation, looking frantically for her fins tips or something, but she is gone. I instantly feel the urge to leap into the swirling water and reach around blindly and try to pull her out.

I am envisioning that she is now wedged, head first into the crack, several feet below the water surface, holding her breath, in opaque water with zero visibility. I remember cautioning myself, that this is how people get killed, trying to save someone in a dangerous situation and they die too. I restrained myself from blindly leaping into the crevasse. There have only been a few times in my life where I was involved in serious accidents and it is absolutely weird how fast you can think and also seemingly keep two divergent trains of thought going at the same time…(Don’t die and what am I going to tell her mom?)

So I waited there, for maybe 10-12 seconds, thinking that as the bubbles slowly dissipated from the particularly large wave, the water would clear enough to allow me to see something and try to help. I am going over the mouth-to-mouth protocol in my head and remembering the only time I ever had to really use it was in a similar environment, on a diver..and it didn’t work….

Then she pops up! Head First! I snatch her out of the water by her arm pits and she is laughing hysterically. “Did you see that?” “That was wild!” I ask what happened? She says: “I got washed over the rock and then back down into that big crack; I couldn’t see anything, but I knew how my body was positioned and the crack opened up down deep, and after the wave stopped washing in, I just turned around and swam back up”. She was returned back to me without a scratch.

 

[Abdullah]

From a water skills perspective, I would expect a DM or instructor to be completely comfortable doing anything they're likely to have to do in the water. As for making a long swim, I'd have to ask why with no gear? If I'm scuba diving, I will always have my scuba equipment on. If I'm skin diving, I'll have mask, fins, and snorkel. At no point can I imagine myself in a situation where I have to swim that would require me ... or in any way be beneficial ... to remove my fins. With fins on I can get where I'm going faster and easier than without them.

I don't think anything in any aspect of scuba instruction should be done unless there's a cogent reason why you should do it ... and the instructor is able to provide that reason to the student in terms the student can put into the context of why they are taking the class.

In that respect, what would be the purpose of a no-gear 800-yard swim in 2-3 foot swells?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I don't know the area you dive, maybe it's usually calm. When I took the DM course there were 2-3 foot swells every day. It's the ocean, it does that, why would you need an explanation?

Your opinion of what is cogent appears to be fairly narrow. Many educational exercises don't have any apparent relevance to the subject matter. They are designed to trigger psychological responses that a student develops skills to overcome. The exercise itself is irrelevant, the matrix of interlocking coping skills that the student obtains is the goal.

 

[AfterDark]

How many of you would find increasing the intensity of your diver training beneficial? Regardless of certification Agency, would increased difficulty enhance or detract from your training experience?

For those who don't know me, I'm an "old school" Instructor with a background in Navy and Commercial Diving. Many of my students take my course because they wish to either follow a similar career, or just want a challenge. To give you some parameters of the Basic Program (50-65 hours), the applicant must pass an in-water evaluation that consists of a:

- 400 M swim;
- 25 M underwater swim;
- tread water 2 minutes (arms and legs);
- tread water 2 minutes (arms only, legs crossed);
- tread water 2 minutes (Legs only, hands out of the water;
- 10 pound weight belt recovery (18')
- 15 minute survival float.

This is done in a continuous fashion (without pause). If an applicant fails to complete one or two segments, they may continue with the confined water training, but must successfully redo the test before progressing to OW.

The program is divided into 5 sections (plus an optional session):

1/ Fins, Mask and Snorkel

Divers become proficient with this equipment while increasing in-water fitness. This includes: mask clearing, surface dives, entries, kicks, doff and don (in 18' of water).

2/ SCUBA

Divers become proficient with this equipment while increasing in-water fitness. This includes the same skills undertaken with FMS. From the beginning of the class, emphasis is placed on good buoyancy control. This is tested later in the course with "the Gauntlet" (a set of underwater hoops at various depths that Students must negotiate). To get through the last hoop, the Student must take off his SCUBA to fit through a smaller opening. Other aspects of this class include: emergency swimming ascent (CESA), sharing air, buddy breathing, doff and don (with a blacked-out face mask), station breathing (movement between 5 SCUBA stations which will be shared by a number of other students).

3/ SCUBA Rescue

Areas covered include: the diving casualty, first-aid/cpr, diver recovery and transport, tired diver, panic reduction, surface & sub-surface rescue

4/ Lectures/Examinations (Text used: U.S. Navy Diving Manual)

During the first 3 sections, Students learn about: diving equipment/selection/maintenance, diver physiology, physics, Boyle's, Charles, Dalton's, Henry's laws, properties of breathing gases, harmful aspects of each gas (partial pressures), etc., etc., decompression, tide charts, dive planning. There are separate examinations for general knowledge, decompression, tide tables and dive planning (including the calculation and projection of gas consumption at various depths RMV/SAC).

Chamber Ride (Optional Session)

Students attend a simulated dive in a decompression chamber. This is usually done between 100 and 130 FSW.

5/ Open Water Dives

This is usually done over two weekends. It includes an ocean surface swim (1000 yards), Skin Dive (FMS) and a minimum of 5 open water dives (usually 7 including two boat dives). It includes an emergency swimming ascent from 50 FSW.

Anyway, I'm sure I missed something, but this was only to give an idea of the training intensity. Primarily, the goal is to turn-out a competent diver who can operate effectively in a Buddy team, independent of an Instructor/DM. The OW training conditions are harsh: waves average 4-5 feet, surface entry through rocks, surf, current and at times poor visibility. Water temperature can be below 32 degrees F.

For most people, a course of this type is overkill, but for a few people it provides what they want. How about you? If a similar program were available in your area, would you be interested in taking your training up a notch?

That looks very familiar to me.

---------- Post added May 16th, 2013 at 11:45 PM ----------

I'm all for improving training and creating better divers, but I think the class you outlined is excessive, and it is way beyond the requirements of GUE Rec 1.

Doff and don with a blackout mask? I'm assuming you do this as a controlled stressor, but I don't think the average recreational diver needs to be trained to that level of stress management. Similarly with the station breathing, and the gear removal to pass through a small hoop. Good heavens, you'd think you were training Full Cave divers!

That's the way training was routinely,that's why some older divers scoff at the so-called limitions of today. There weren't a lot of divers then but they were well trained. If anyone thinks this even comes close to BUDS/SEAL training they better do a fact check. This is just good water skills.

 

[ferris213]

Can I further derail and tell the second story? While on our honeymoon we were freediving there. Possibly Peggy’s Cove, I’m not really sure, we dove several places. We both leaped off the rocks into the water. Not difficult to do at all.

A problem with diving from rocky shores with large tidal amplitude is.. what happens when the water goes down? You can leap off a rock that looks easy to get back on, but when you come back an hour later, the water dropped a lot. Now you are looking up at possibly a vertical wall of rock. If you aren’t a penguin, this can present some difficulties…..

So we come back to the entry/exit point and there is a reasonably large swell and white foaming water in front of the rock , making visibility near zero. I patiently wait for the proper time to exit and time a particularly large incoming swell and ride it, kicking and pulling and slide on my belly onto the top of the rock. I immediately scramble to my feet before the receding wave sucks me back into the sea (which is now like a 4-5 ft drop) as the wave runs out. This is not easy, but doable when you are young and NOT wearing scuba gear and have 7 mm of foam to cushion you against the rocks.

So I stand up on the rock and begin coaching my 5 ft tall, 110-lb wife on how to repeat my little “stunt”. I am telling her to wait near the rocks, keep your arms out to protect your head and then wait for the next big wave to lift you up and ride it like body surfing onto the rock.

It takes several minutes for the next set of waves to arrive that are large enough to overtop the vertical wall of rock. She does a GREAT job, and she times an even larger wave and it just picks her up and throws her onto the rock on her belly. This wave almost knocks me off my feet as it delivers rushing water that is at least 1 foot deep on top of the big rock I am standing on. Unfortunately, I had not really looked BEHIND the big rock I was standing on. It was maybe 6 feet long and 3-4 feet wide.. However, on the OTHER (inshore) side of the rock is a large wide crevasse.

So,, this all happens much quicker than I can describe it, but she washes up onto the rock, but is unable to STOP on the rock and she just continue to ride the wave. She is washed, head-first off the back of the rock, back into the water-filled crack by the wave. She is forcefully propelled vertically downward into this crack. I am standing there in amazement, looking down into the crack.

She is GONE. All I see is white foam and swirling water. Zero visibility with the white foam and bubbles. The thoughts race through my mind at a terrible pace and I am ashamed to admit that I am thinking at light speed about how I am going to explain to her mother (and then mine, as well) how I killed her on our honeymoon. Within a moment, I sense the urgency of the situation, looking frantically for her fins tips or something, but she is gone. I instantly feel the urge to leap into the swirling water and reach around blindly and try to pull her out.

I am envisioning that she is now wedged, head first into the crack, several feet below the water surface, holding her breath, in opaque water with zero visibility. I remember cautioning myself, that this is how people get killed, trying to save someone in a dangerous situation and they die too. I restrained myself from blindly leaping into the crevasse. There have only been a few times in my life where I was involved in serious accidents and it is absolutely weird how fast you can think and also seemingly keep two divergent trains of thought going at the same time…(Don’t die and what am I going to tell her mom?)

So I waited there, for maybe 10-12 seconds, thinking that as the bubbles slowly dissipated from the particularly large wave, the water would clear enough to allow me to see something and try to help. I am going over the mouth-to-mouth protocol in my head and remembering the only time I ever had to really use it was in a similar environment, on a diver..and it didn’t work….

Then she pops up! Head First! I snatch her out of the water by her arm pits and she is laughing hysterically. “Did you see that?” “That was wild!” I ask what happened? She says: “I got washed over the rock and then back down into that big crack; I couldn’t see anything, but I knew how my body was positioned and the crack opened up down deep, and after the wave stopped washing in, I just turned around and swam back up”. She was returned back to me without a scratch.

Dude, Seriously, when are you going to write a book??

 

[DCBC]

Can I further derail and tell the second story? ...

You were both very fortunate! Entries/exits like that are discouraged here for the reasons you've mentioned. When close to the shoreline, the power of the waves have pushed be under rock outcroppings and a few times, I didn't think that I would be able to pull myself out. Just vicious waves, surf and currents at times. Makes for a great story though! Thanks for sharing it.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You were both very fortunate! Entries/exits like that are discouraged here for the reasons you've mentioned. When close to the shoreline, the power of the waves have pushed be under rock outcroppings and a few times, I didn't think that I would be able to pull myself out. Just vicious waves, surf and currents at times. Makes for a great story though! Thanks for sharing it.

Blah, blah, Blah... it is no more challenging than driving a car on the interstate...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't know the area you dive, maybe it's usually calm. When I took the DM course there were 2-3 foot swells every day. It's the ocean, it does that, why would you need an explanation?

Your opinion of what is cogent appears to be fairly narrow. Many educational exercises don't have any apparent relevance to the subject matter. They are designed to trigger psychological responses that a student develops skills to overcome. The exercise itself is irrelevant, the matrix of interlocking coping skills that the student obtains is the goal.

So answer the question I asked earlier and explain how an 800-yard swim in 2-3 foot swells with no gear helps with coping skills.

In scuba diving ... even if you're someday caught far offshore in bad conditions and need to dump gear and swim for shore against a current in heavy waves, why would you dump all of your gear ... a sensible person will at least keep their mask and fins ... and, if I have one, snorkel. So what value does a no-gear swim in those conditions provide?

That exercise doesn't appear to me to add any practical value. Now, if you wanted to say 800 yard swim in those conditions with just a mask and fins, I could see it ... but that's just a watered-down version of what DCBC proposed in the OP. But the exercise you propose doesn't make any sense to me ... there are more relevent watermanship exercises, and doing something just for the sake of being able to say you offer a harder class doesn't necessarily provide value to the student.

If I were your student, I would expect you to be able to explain to me why this is relevent to what I'm trying to learn ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

If I were your student, I would expect you to be able to explain to me why this is relevent to what I'm trying to learn ...

I agree with your last statement Bob. Unlike military training, where long ocean swims of 2 miles (usually with FMS or just a mask) help promote team work and fitness. OW swims in cold water without any equipment are unproductive for civilian OW Students. Surface swims (with equipment) can be extremely beneficial to the training process. As discussed, this is what I do.

 

[Abdullah]

So answer the question I asked earlier and explain how an 800-yard swim in 2-3 foot swells with no gear helps with coping skills.

In scuba diving ... even if you're someday caught far offshore in bad conditions and need to dump gear and swim for shore against a current in heavy waves, why would you dump all of your gear ... a sensible person will at least keep their mask and fins ... and, if I have one, snorkel. So what value does a no-gear swim in those conditions provide?

That exercise doesn't appear to me to add any practical value. Now, if you wanted to say 800 yard swim in those conditions with just a mask and fins, I could see it ... but that's just a watered-down version of what DCBC proposed in the OP. But the exercise you propose doesn't make any sense to me ... there are more relevent watermanship exercises, and doing something just for the sake of being able to say you offer a harder class doesn't necessarily provide value to the student.

If I were your student, I would expect you to be able to explain to me why this is relevent to what I'm trying to learn ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I clearly said that there were 2-3 foot swells because that was the sea state for the duration of the course. Would it have been more realistic to the scuba environment to swim in the pool? My original point, apparently poorly made, was that a long swim isn't that great a hardship. DCDB's thousand meter surface swim with full scuba kit has several beneficial aspects.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I clearly said that there were 2-3 foot swells because that was the sea state for the duration of the course. Would it have been more realistic to the scuba environment to swim in the pool? My original point, apparently poorly made, was that a long swim isn't that great a hardship. DCDB's thousand meter surface swim with full scuba kit has several beneficial aspects.

... it would have been more realistic to the scuba environment to do the swim with mask and fins on ... because as a scuba diver who might someday find himself caught offshore in those conditions and facing a long swim, I sure as hell ain't taking them off ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)