Dont dive dehydrated.The blood is thicker and harder for nitrogen to escape.Eating fruit is an excellent way to start a dive.And finish one.I would see a dive doc to be safe.Low blood sugar may be the culprit.
Diver passes out underwater...
- Thread starter dewayne405
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imasinker
Contributor
I would agree...
If you havent notified the LDS or resort you rented the gear from do so, maybe take the reg serial number to make sure they check the reg.
cancell all future dives...
Go have a complete medical, blood work the works.
Could have been tainted air, but you were fine, so It seems your dive partner may have an illness unknown.
If everything comes back normal from testing, I would suggest a to stay in pool dives to see how she responds, If the situation arises less chance for a mishap.
Keep hydrated, fresh fruits and lot's of water. If you drink the night before, keep it down to a few beers or glasses of wine. Make sure you get a good nights rest.
Hope things work out for you..
If you havent notified the LDS or resort you rented the gear from do so, maybe take the reg serial number to make sure they check the reg.
cancell all future dives...
Go have a complete medical, blood work the works.
Could have been tainted air, but you were fine, so It seems your dive partner may have an illness unknown.
If everything comes back normal from testing, I would suggest a to stay in pool dives to see how she responds, If the situation arises less chance for a mishap.
Keep hydrated, fresh fruits and lot's of water. If you drink the night before, keep it down to a few beers or glasses of wine. Make sure you get a good nights rest.
Hope things work out for you..
OP
dewayne405
Contributor
Per DocV...
1. How old is your friend? Wife is 30
2. Does she have any history of cardiovascular disease? No per last medical physical done pre-OW certification
3. Is she a smoker?no
4. Is she overweight?yes
5. Is she on any medications?no
6. How severe was the light-headedness and memory disturbance?on a 1-10, 7
7. Did she have any other signs or symptoms either before or after each of these episodes?nothing, was just fine after a few minutes of breathing ambient air(non regulator)
8. When was the last time the reg was properly serviced? ?? Unsure due to rental, according to LDS it was current
9. The composition of the cylinder air is not in question? (e.g., others diving the same gas without incident). I was breathing same air, no issues at all...
10. Why did she decline to seek medical evaluation? She's an RN, stubborn, but several dive friends who are physician's assistants and RNs did evaluate her, as did I (EMT-Paramedic) and everything was fine after a few minutes
1. How old is your friend? Wife is 30
2. Does she have any history of cardiovascular disease? No per last medical physical done pre-OW certification
3. Is she a smoker?no
4. Is she overweight?yes
5. Is she on any medications?no
6. How severe was the light-headedness and memory disturbance?on a 1-10, 7
7. Did she have any other signs or symptoms either before or after each of these episodes?nothing, was just fine after a few minutes of breathing ambient air(non regulator)
8. When was the last time the reg was properly serviced? ?? Unsure due to rental, according to LDS it was current
9. The composition of the cylinder air is not in question? (e.g., others diving the same gas without incident). I was breathing same air, no issues at all...
10. Why did she decline to seek medical evaluation? She's an RN, stubborn, but several dive friends who are physician's assistants and RNs did evaluate her, as did I (EMT-Paramedic) and everything was fine after a few minutes
How does her air consumption rate generally compare to other divers? Ultra high or low by any chance? With 16 dives I assume she does not have a calculated SAC rate established.
Was she diving in her own wetsuit and does it fit correctly?
When she becomes too uncomfortable to swim on her own both of you should be calling the dive.
Pete
Was she diving in her own wetsuit and does it fit correctly?
When she becomes too uncomfortable to swim on her own both of you should be calling the dive.
Pete
Producing global unresponsiveness requires pretty much one of two things: Either something damaging or depressing the reticular activating system, which is in the brainstem, or something causing severe depression of function of the entire cortex. Absent trauma, which clearly wasn't involved in this case, you're looking at derangements of blood flow, glucose, oxygen, or carbon dioxide, or toxins like carbon monoxide, drugs or medications, alcohol, or solvents. You could also be looking at anything severely depressing cardiac output. It's actually relatively hard to make someone unconscious.
If she were diving dry, I'd be thinking about the carotid sinus reflex, depressing heart rate and essentially making her faint. But I'm assuming from where you were diving that she was diving wet, and did not have anything tight around her neck? I'd also be quite suspicious of breathing pattern -- as a brand new diver, if she is either breathing very rapidly or much too slowly, she could experience enough CO2 buildup to be narcotic. Although most people would experience extreme anxiety before passing out, some divers are apparently quite tolerant of elevated CO2 levels.
If this had occurred once, I'd worry about contaminated gas, but as it happened twice (and assuming no one else was similarly affected) I'd think that unlikely.
Hypoglycemia is a possibility, but in general, hypoglycemia severe enough to cause unresponsiveness is only found in people who are taking anti-diabetic medications, and people with a certain type of very rare tumor. And there is no reason why a hypoglycemic episode would be more likely to occur underwater.
On the other hand, especially since she is a new diver, I would assume there's still a fair amount of adrenaline involved in jumping into the water. This could increase her likelihood of experiencing a tachydysrhythmia (excessively rapid heart rate) if she has the underlying propensity to it. Very rapid heart rates reduce the blood flow to the brain, and can cause unresponsiveness.
I agree with the other posters -- She needs a thorough medical evaluation, and I would insist on, at the very least, an electrocardiogram and a basic set of electrolytes and glucose. Assuming all of that is cleared, she should have a session with a good dive instructor who can have a careful look at her pattern of breathing.
If she were diving dry, I'd be thinking about the carotid sinus reflex, depressing heart rate and essentially making her faint. But I'm assuming from where you were diving that she was diving wet, and did not have anything tight around her neck? I'd also be quite suspicious of breathing pattern -- as a brand new diver, if she is either breathing very rapidly or much too slowly, she could experience enough CO2 buildup to be narcotic. Although most people would experience extreme anxiety before passing out, some divers are apparently quite tolerant of elevated CO2 levels.
If this had occurred once, I'd worry about contaminated gas, but as it happened twice (and assuming no one else was similarly affected) I'd think that unlikely.
Hypoglycemia is a possibility, but in general, hypoglycemia severe enough to cause unresponsiveness is only found in people who are taking anti-diabetic medications, and people with a certain type of very rare tumor. And there is no reason why a hypoglycemic episode would be more likely to occur underwater.
On the other hand, especially since she is a new diver, I would assume there's still a fair amount of adrenaline involved in jumping into the water. This could increase her likelihood of experiencing a tachydysrhythmia (excessively rapid heart rate) if she has the underlying propensity to it. Very rapid heart rates reduce the blood flow to the brain, and can cause unresponsiveness.
I agree with the other posters -- She needs a thorough medical evaluation, and I would insist on, at the very least, an electrocardiogram and a basic set of electrolytes and glucose. Assuming all of that is cleared, she should have a session with a good dive instructor who can have a careful look at her pattern of breathing.
imasinker
Contributor
Excellent point!
I have heard of divers wetsuits or latex seals being to tight causing circulation (the neck area) to be cut off thus the diver blacking out. This could very well be the problem as well.
I have heard of divers wetsuits or latex seals being to tight causing circulation (the neck area) to be cut off thus the diver blacking out. This could very well be the problem as well.
don Francisco
Contributor
Don't be too quick to blame the equipment, and don't pass this off as a minor incident so easily.
While it could be nothing, the result of dehydration or not eating enough that morning, passing out without an obvious cause is likely an indicator of something more serious.
Diving stresses our bodies in a number of ways, but a healthy person should not pass out from these stresses. I suggest a trip to the doc, giving him all the details and hopefully he'll form a theory and be able to verify it without ordering every test in the book. You might have the doc talk to Dan to help analyze her case.
In any case, passing out for no known reason is bad enough, doing so underwater is dangerous to the point of insanity, and you were lucky twice. I strongly suggest that you not push your luck and that she doesn't dive until this is sorted out.
While it could be nothing, the result of dehydration or not eating enough that morning, passing out without an obvious cause is likely an indicator of something more serious.
Diving stresses our bodies in a number of ways, but a healthy person should not pass out from these stresses. I suggest a trip to the doc, giving him all the details and hopefully he'll form a theory and be able to verify it without ordering every test in the book. You might have the doc talk to Dan to help analyze her case.
In any case, passing out for no known reason is bad enough, doing so underwater is dangerous to the point of insanity, and you were lucky twice. I strongly suggest that you not push your luck and that she doesn't dive until this is sorted out.
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How refreshing, TSandM. You mean we're really going to try to arrive at a working diagnosis before various and sundry treatment suggestions regarding hydration and glucose modulation are instituted? ; )
Thanks,
Doc
Thanks,
Doc
fisherdvm
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Hi dewayne,
While proper hydration and blood glucose levels certainly are important to safe SCUBA, the rush in this thread to explain your wife's episodes on one these bases really isn't well supported. For example:
1. You indicate there were no other signs or symptoms.
If dehydration or low blood glucose were severe enough to cause obtundation and loss of consciousness, there very likely would be other signs and symptoms.
2. You indicate that "she was just fine after a few minutes" on the surface.
If dehydration or low blood glucose were severe enough to cause obtundation and loss of consciousness, level of consciousness would only be expected to return to normal once specific interventions resulted in rehydration or an appropriate rise in blood glucose levels.
Based on the overall picture here, a cardiovascular basis for these episodes still definitely seems worth ruling out. You'll see in the article posted by fisherdvm that cardiovascular mechanisms as broadly described often are responsible for events such as you have reported.
It really does not appear safe for your wife to return to diving until she undergoes a proper medical work up.
Best of luck and please keep the board posted on her progress.
Regards,
DocVikingo
While proper hydration and blood glucose levels certainly are important to safe SCUBA, the rush in this thread to explain your wife's episodes on one these bases really isn't well supported. For example:
1. You indicate there were no other signs or symptoms.
If dehydration or low blood glucose were severe enough to cause obtundation and loss of consciousness, there very likely would be other signs and symptoms.
2. You indicate that "she was just fine after a few minutes" on the surface.
If dehydration or low blood glucose were severe enough to cause obtundation and loss of consciousness, level of consciousness would only be expected to return to normal once specific interventions resulted in rehydration or an appropriate rise in blood glucose levels.
Based on the overall picture here, a cardiovascular basis for these episodes still definitely seems worth ruling out. You'll see in the article posted by fisherdvm that cardiovascular mechanisms as broadly described often are responsible for events such as you have reported.
It really does not appear safe for your wife to return to diving until she undergoes a proper medical work up.
Best of luck and please keep the board posted on her progress.
Regards,
DocVikingo
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