Diver out of air? Not really? Cozumel.

[Down2bizDiver]

Let me try to explain this again.

The shops that do this want to make the longest possible bottom time for the entire group. What they do, on almost every dive, is share air with the first diver who reaches a certain PSI. That PSI level is nowhere near out of air. When a second diver reaches that point, the first one gives the reg back and they complete he dive normally.

I realize this is a difficult concept to grasp, but it is not an OOA situation.

It does appear he was not out of air, as noted above (free flowing reg; purge; finished dive on his own tank). But it is not a case of a diver reaching some predetermined minimum psi. The "sharing" was initiated by the diver in a panic, not the DM/Instructor. Reviewing my raw video time stamps I find that the diver's problems became evident to me a mere 9 - 10 minutes into the dive ("BCD adjustment" clip). I don't know whether he evidenced problems prior to that time because I was mostly paying attention to the student diver doing his deep dive skill test (see related video).

As noted above, I'm a relatively new diver myself, but with more than 265 dives, many of 60 minutes or more, and a couple dozen below 100' all around the Caribbean, and the Pacific, too, I have never witnessed anything like this before, thus it is not "routine," "no big deal," or "just another day of diving" and most certainly not "on almost every dive" as far as I'm concerned. Your experience may be different, and your comfort threshold lower.

Personally, I would avoid diving with someone who thinks this sort of event is acceptable, routine practice on a deep dive. Call me "chicken."

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Wait for the "there doesn't seem to be a huge number of deaths related to this issue, so it's no big deal" argument...

That point get made in post #27. Didn't take too long.

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't know the exact details of this situation, but let me describe a typical dive situation I faced n Cozumel years ago. There were four customers on the boat-- a husband and wife, a brand new diver on his first dive trip, and me.

Guess who my buddy was?

When the new diver reached the designated ascent PSI, because I was his buddy I had to ascend and end my dive with him. I reached the surface with 1,800 PSI in my AL 80 tank. I was not a happy customer. Experiences like that is a reason I left that operator and went with Aldora.

Aldora Divers uses HP 120's, and the DM shares when a diver reaches 1000 PSI--about 34 cubic feet, just under half a normal AL 80. When a second diver reaches 1,000 PSI, the ascent process starts, with every diver, including the first "LOA" diver, having at least 34 cubic feet for an NDL ascent.

No, that is not how it is taught in the OW classes, but I think you will find a lot of satisfied customers. A run time of less than 60 minutes with them is rare.

And no, I do not condone continuing a dive with a diver who is truly low enough on air that a safe ascent without assistance is in jeopardy.

And by the way, it is the opposite of the situation that Cave Diver describes. Not only are these dives long, but the surface intervals are extremely long in order to maximize time for the second dive.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Do that crap (OOA) around here and you won't being doing anymore dives on the boat. Finish the dive with less than 500 PSI and you don't dive again, I've seen it enforced many times.
I'm sure this is probably done with other dive operators.

Why would anyone think it's ok to dive and not monitor their own gas supply?

Why would other divers defend or advocate this poor practice?

**We posted at the same time Boulderjohn, not directed at you.**

 

[Mike]

Do that crap (OOA) around here and you won't being doing anymore dives on the boat. Finish the dive with less than 500 PSI and you don't dive again, I've seen it enforced many times.
I'm sure this is probably done with other dive operators.

Why would anyone think it's ok to dive and not monitor their own gas supply?

Why would other divers defend or advocate this poor practice?

**We posted at the same time Boulderjohn, not directed at you.**

If you're referring to what Boulderjohn is posting, I think you're forgetting that the diver on the DMs long tether can monitor his gas all he wants, all he has to do is pull up his gauge and see he has about 1000 PSI on the tank on his back. Can he monitor the DMs gas? No, but a good breath is no farther away then his own reg and the 1000PSI on his back.

 

[Mike]

I don't know the exact details of this situation, but let me describe a typical dive situation I faced n Cozumel years ago. There were four customers on the boat-- a husband and wife, a brand new diver on his first dive trip, and me.

Guess who my buddy was?

When the new diver reached the designated ascent PSI, because I was his buddy I had to ascend and end my dive with him. I reached the surface with 1,800 PSI in my AL 80 tank. I was not a happy customer. Experiences like that is a reason I left that operator and went with Aldora.

Aldora Divers uses HP 120's, and the DM shares when a diver reaches 1000 PSI--about 34 cubic feet, just under half a normal AL 80. When a second diver reaches 1,000 PSI, the ascent process starts, with every diver, including the first "LOA" diver, having at least 34 cubic feet for an NDL ascent.

No, that is not how it is taught in the OW classes, but I think you will find a lot of satisfied customers. A run time of less than 60 minutes with them is rare.

And no, I do not condone continuing a dive with a diver who is truly low enough on air that a safe ascent without assistance is in jeopardy.

And by the way, it is the opposite of the situation that Cave Diver describes. Not only are these dives long, but the surface intervals are extremely long in order to maximize time for the second dive.

I dive with Aldora anytime I'm in Coz, so you're preaching to the choir. They cost a lot more but the bottom times are well worth it. Dave's been running one of the best premium dive ops on the island for a long time. Rarely a dive under an hour and doing an hour and a half isn't that unusual.

 

[Gombessa]

Well, whatever was happening here, I'm sure that poor guy wouldn't appreciate you plastering his face all over the front of the video

 

[Pullmyfinger]

It could be the start of a diving "Tosh.0"
With a follow up web redemption. ;-)

 

[Down2bizDiver]

Well, whatever was happening here, I'm sure that poor guy wouldn't appreciate you plastering his face all over the front of the video

Oh? Can you see his face clearly enough to identify him? I think not.

I don't know his identity. Is it you? If it isn't you, do you know him? If yes, please ask him to post to this thread so we can all benefit from his experience and this learning moment.

Do you not understand the purpose of this thread? Should we all pretend that diving is perfectly safe, nothing ever goes awry, and to avoid any potential embarrassment to those involved the posting of video and photographic recordings of mishaps should be prohibited? Surely, that would improve our understanding of "near misses and lessons learned."

Note: The video was not made surreptitiously and I charged nothing for this memento of the dive. Please, check out my other dive videos (free!) by entering "down2biz" in the youtube search box. I think the best one is of hammerhead sharks at Darwin Arch, Galapagos, last month ... and it is only 90 seconds long! Also look for another mishap I posted involving an actual out of air diver at Utila who was actually hurt badly, no mere "near miss" that time!

 

[Gombessa]

Oh? Can you see his face clearly enough to identify him? I think not. I don't know his identity. Is it you? If it isn't you, do you know him? If yes, please ask him to post to this thread so we can all benefit from his experience and this learning moment. Note: I charged nothing for this memento of the dive!

Do you not understand the purpose of this thread?

From the tone of this response, I think I can honestly answer your last question "Yes."