Diver missing on Spiegel Grove - Key Largo Florida

[DevonDiver]

Both of these guys were well trained with plenty of experience, and from what sterlunk said, were properly equipped and conditions were favorable

Four simple questions:

1) What do you define as "well trained"? To what level, with what agency, relative to what extent of penetration? Was the training properly applied, with all correct planning, protocols and considerations?

2) What do you consider "plenty of experience"? No. of penetration dives? No. of penetration dives of that level? No. of dives together as a team? Was the experience used to shape the dive plan and conduct? How?

3) What do you consider properly equipped? Redundant gas? How much? How configured? Primary reels? Safety reels? Torches? Back-up torches? Was the equipment properly employed on the dive, or not?

4) What were the conditions? Outside of the wreck? Inside of the wreck?

First: Basic (specialty) wreck diving courses are one of the most popular continued-education diving courses available. These are recreational level courses - suitable for limited penetration within the light zone only, with no restrictions (confined areas), no decompression and strictly within the rule-of-thirds of primary gas. Most are taught badly, with only one actual penetration dive, and are thus nothing more than an 'introductory' level familiarization to diving 'on' wrecks, not inside them.

Second: Training (and experience) count for nought if not applied properly. Neither does equipment, if not actually used, or used incorrectly. It's irrelevant to list training or equipment, but not describe how it was applied on the actual dive.

 

[MalibuJerry]

There is really not much to say here. Deep penetration, single tanks, no apparent contingency planning. Tragic, but you do see people doing this sort of thing all the time, and most of the time they get away with it, so they keep doing it. It really doesn't do any good to conclude, get the training, practice, get experience, and dive within your limits because everyone knows that already.

 

[Wookie]

Four simple questions:

1) What do you define as "well trained"? To what level, with what agency, relative to what extent of penetration? Was the training properly applied, with all correct planning, protocols and considerations?

2) What do you consider "plenty of experience"? No. of penetration dives? No. of penetration dives of that level? No. of dives together as a team? Was the experience used to shape the dive plan and conduct? How?

3) What do you consider properly equipped? Redundant gas? How much? How configured? Primary reels? Safety reels? Torches? Back-up torches? Was the equipment properly employed on the dive, or not?

4) What were the conditions? Outside of the wreck? Inside of the wreck?

Now, there ya go asking the hard questions. You know, they had lots of dives, lots of cards, dove together some, and conditions were good. Geez. I'm sitting in the wheelhouse of the Spree, having just completed an argument with a certified divemaster who just told me that he could have penetrated the SG safely based on his recreational DM certificate and the fact that he had a reel and knew how to use it. He'd have carried a pony bottle.

Peeps don't know what they don't know until they find out. Hopefully they find out in a class or with a mentor, and not when their buddy was just dragged up from the engineroom of a wreck in a black plastic bag. I lost the argument, as in, the recreational DM wasn't convinced.

 

[DevonDiver]

I lost the argument, as in, the recreational DM wasn't convinced.

Words never work. That's why God invented the blacked-out mask!

 

[Wookie]

Words never work. That's why God invented the blacked-out mask!

And life insurance.

 

[TSandM]

There's a lot about this accident that doesn't make sense to me.

These guys had a reel and were using it, and were on the way OUT. Apparently there was a line problem and it got tangled or the reel jammed. Still, the diver with the reel HAS THE REEL -- there are a lot of different ways to salvage the situation. I have done an exit while manually wrapping the line around the outside of a jammed reel -- it isn't difficult (just humiliating). As long as the diver has hold of the reel and is on the line, anything else is really a pretty minor inconvenience. Even if you have to call your buddy back, cut the line and resplice it, it doesn't take much time (and if you have done the gas planning for a penetration, and are on your way OUT, you should have a LOT of gas in reserve for things like this).

I understand how people die when they don't run line, or if they silt themselves out. But to die from a tangled reel is something I just can't wrap my head around.

 

[kwinter]

I wouldn't make the assumption that the reel jammed and then the diver had a problem. It is just as likely that a diver could have a heart attack or other medical problem and drop the reel, with the line getting tangled as a result.

 

[tracydr]

There's a lot about this accident that doesn't make sense to me.

These guys had a reel and were using it, and were on the way OUT. Apparently there was a line problem and it got tangled or the reel jammed. Still, the diver with the reel HAS THE REEL -- there are a lot of different ways to salvage the situation. I have done an exit while manually wrapping the line around the outside of a jammed reel -- it isn't difficult (just humiliating). As long as the diver has hold of the reel and is on the line, anything else is really a pretty minor inconvenience. Even if you have to call your buddy back, cut the line and resplice it, it doesn't take much time (and if you have done the gas planning for a penetration, and are on your way OUT, you should have a LOT of gas in reserve for things like this).

I understand how people die when they don't run line, or if they silt themselves out. But to die from a tangled reel is something I just can't wrap my head around.

Sounds like the was no gas plan and not much in the way of a buddy team. When the going got tough, well, the buddy got going.
An Al80 and a pony for a penetration dive at this depth. Nitrox or air? Just crazy silly. There are no reserves in an Al 80 for any kind of emergency, especially for somebody who actually breathes air. You'd have to sip air like a hamster to give you any kind of reserve. A pony gives you not much more when coming out of a penetration, especially if running into a problem. How big of a pony, 6 cu ft? Enough to go straight up from 100 feet? How does that help when you are inside a wreck?

 

[beaverdivers]

SCUBA diving is a serious sport. Wreck/cave diving is an EXTREME sport!

 

[TSandM]

I'd be more willing to buy a medical problem if the diver hadn't been found out of gas.

Agreed that, if they were in fact doing penetration at 100+ feet on a single Al80, that was a very ill-advised gas plan.