Diver missing on Spiegel Grove - Key Largo Florida

[iluvtheocean]

Why would you assume that? Perhaps it was because I wrote:

"Wrecks are organic entities and a whole order of magnitude more difficult in many ways than caves. I dive and teach in both and am way more on edge inside a wreck because there is no way to guarantee that the way you came in will be the best way to get out. That's not always the case, but I can honestly say that I have never been lost in a cave, even when laying new line... I have second-guessed my location in a wreck, even with a reel in my hand and a continuous line to the exit. Wrecks are way more challenging to navigate."

I believe that covers the bases... can I assume you do too?

---------- Post added October 23rd, 2013 at 08:05 PM ----------



Cave divers run flimsy lines in wrecks. Wreck divers use 2 mm equipment line (also known as static line) knotted every three metres.

You cannot load as much on a reel but that **** has some break strain and you can pull yourself out of a restriction with it... been there, done that, intend to do it again.

DON'T USE CAVE LINE IN A WRECK. Wrong tool for the job.

Learn something new every day this is a good thing.

 

[Doppler]

learn something new every day this is a good thing.

me too!

 

[iluvtheocean]

me too!

i've been using a diamond braid (maybe 1/8" or less??) rope that i normally use for camping etc to tie clips etc to my gear.. seems to be quite strong and easy to get ahold of.

 

[DoNotDstrb]

i've been using a diamond braid (maybe 1/8" or less??) rope that i normally use for camping etc to tie clips etc to my gear.. seems to be quite strong and easy to get ahold of.

I'm fond of parachute cord....... Not the easiest thing to cut accidentally and available cheaply in the military surplus market........

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I'm fond of parachute cord....... Not the easiest thing to cut accidentally and available cheaply in the military surplus market........

I was taught to use #36 line versus the thin cave crap, but I don't trust either one. Putting 550 cord on a reel is something I've never really considered but probably should.

 

[RJP]

I am of the school that O2 is not narcotic. Sadly, I have not seen any pink elephants swimming with purple hammerheads while off-gassing on 100% O2.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[drrich2]

Its not a question of how much babysitting I or anyone else "needs" --- its a question of integrity and character.

If a boat wants to be just a taxi, as you describe, and bills themselves as such and every diver understands that they are on their own, I'm 100% fine with that..... In fact, I like those boats. You've described MY boat.

OTOH, if a boat wants to give dive briefings, give advice as to do's and dont's, have rules as to what is and isn't allowed on the dive AND THEN breaks those rules for people they "know" or "like"....... THAT, in my opinion, is indicative of an attitude and lack of discipline that I really don't like and when I have observed crews that behave that way for long enough, that attitude has eventually turned into some really unsafe stuff.

If you have rules, follow them.... If you aren't going to follow them, then don't have any. Either way is fine with me as long as everyone knows the rules or lack thereof and therefore can adjust their behavior and planning accordingly.

I see your point. On the other hand, I don't think giving dive briefings and recommendations obligates the staff to become scuba police. The 'rules' thing is more difficult.

Not all rules in society are effectively enforced. Yet even unenforced rules sometimes do some good. It didn't save this guy, but it might've saved some others over time. And diving outside the stipulated rules goes a long way to put the liability on the diver(s), not the op., which I believe is how it should be.

Richard.

 

[boulderjohn]

P.S. Never gave any of this much thought..... My deepest air dive it 160 FSW and I felt absolutely nothing..... I know what narcosis should feel like from doing N20 shots back in the day :balloons: and I've never felt anything like that underwater. I also don't notice any memory loss or any of the other classic symptoms.

I have never felt anything in the "narcosis range." I have had several occasions, however, in which there was incontrovertible evidence of narcosis. In each case, something happened that revealed the extent of my stupidity at the moment. I would be happy to give the details if you wish. The key point is this: if it were not for the events that proved my stupidity, I would not have known about it. I would have ended the dive saying I had not had any narcotic effects whatsoever. One of the effects of the most common form of narcosis is you don't feel it--just as the person who is a little bit drunk doesn't know it when he picks up the car keys.

EDIT: In the cases when events showed the degree of my impairment, the most profound occurred at only 100 feet.

 

[openmindOW]

I understand how people die when they don't run line, or if they silt themselves out. But to die from a tangled reel is something I just can't wrap my head around.

good point. Pending an autopsy, we don't know if he had a medical emergency. Yes, he was 43. But there are 43 year olds with heart disease or diabetes.

Just to play Devils Advocate, as someone who has had my share of Spiegel dives, including pens, the Spiegel has a tempting allure. The water quality is perfect, the ship is huge, and there is very little junk cluttering the inside of the wreck.

My condolences to the family, friends and loved ones of the lost diver.

---------- Post added October 24th, 2013 at 09:19 PM ----------

PROPERLY TRAINED means jack **** unless disaster scenarios such as this have been drilled (regularly and recently) and the correct options chosen for a safe, rapid and no-bull**** exit.

Amen.

Sorry for the ****ing language

You do need to improve your vocabularly but you know that.

---------- Post added October 24th, 2013 at 09:37 PM ----------

. . . separate rules for newcomers and regulars. I regularly dive one boat that I have an arrangement with. The rules that the newcomers are asked to follow do not apply to me, because of a long standing personal relationship with the Captain.

I've seen it myself.

---------- Post added October 24th, 2013 at 09:44 PM ----------

My deepest air dive it 160 FSW and I felt absolutely nothing.....

You were narced at 160 FSW.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I have never felt anything in the "narcosis range." I have had several occasions, however, in which there was incontrovertible evidence of narcosis. In each case, something happened that revealed the extent of my stupidity at the moment. I would be happy to give the details if you wish. The key point is this: if it were not for the events that proved my stupidity, I would not have known about it. I would have ended the dive saying I had not had any narcotic effects whatsoever. One of the effects of the most common form of narcosis is you don't feel it--just as the person who is a little bit drunk doesn't know it when he picks up the car keys.

EDIT: In the cases when events showed the degree of my impairment, the most profound occurred at only 100 feet.

This is consistent with my experience. If you have all the normal diving stuff down perfectly (swimming, buoyancy etc.) you can be pretty stoned and not know it... but then, something will happen, even something small and you will respond to it very slowly or stupidly or incorrectly and if you are not too wasted you will recognize it immediately as impairment. If you are too far gone, you won't notice it, won't feel it and definitely will not remember it when you surface.