Diver lost 15 Jan 2013 Cozumel

[Ron Lee]

All possibilities here are unconfirmed.

Originally I thought the scenario was that the missing diver got ahead of the group. Then they ascended and whether she was ever seen at the beginning/during the ascent was unclear.

Then I read a news article where the dive shop owner mentioned a "whirlpool" or similar.

About the same time, someone that Alibi knows who was reportedly on the same dive mentions a downcurrent type event.

Then today I saw Don's quote of a swim through event where the missing diver and her two brothers may have gone a different way than the DM led group and during this event the woman disappeared. The group, minus the woman, then surfaced.

I do not know if the reported downcurrent was close in time to the swim through.

For discussion purposes, I will assume that the swim through separation is what led to the woman's disappearance. If I am diving with another brother and a sister, I would have the sister between us and ideally with me trailing. Normally I take the trail position in swim throughs if I do them (they are not my favorite activity).

As has been mentioned, being in trail could mean that she was exposed to a small confined area, visibility reducing suspended sediment and possibly reduced light. Depending upon the persons experience and temperament, that could be a scary to fear/panic inducing moment.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Simple answer is this. Stay the heck out of overheads of any kind unless you have the training and experience for it.
Next dive ops need to ask if anyone does not have overhead training or experience. If they don't the DM does not take the group through any. Or they send those without on another boat.
If a DM/Guide takes a non overhead trained or experienced diver through one they lose their card and job.
Entering overhead environments with new OW divers is stupid with the training or lack of it that many of them have today. Ops that do deserve bad press, loss of business, and hopefully fail.

This "it's only a swim thru" BS may have had benign beginnings. But it has been taken too far and has in fact resulted in deaths of people not trained for diving in overheads. A body length or so that two divers can pass through side by side might be a swim thru depending on conditions and the divers. The Devil's throat is not a friggin swim thru. I used to think the bridge of the Spiegel was one due to the big holes cut in the roof that you can exit out of.

After getting overhead training that opinion has changed. A diver could get hung up on one of those holes and panic. They could get cut coming up through and panic. I did an arch in Monterrey that was very wide and a group could easily pass through at 70 ft. At 15 on up though it got real narrow and jagged, such that a diver that lost buoyancy control could get wedged in it 10 feet from the surface. And if they had lost their buddy or pancked would drown while looking at the surface in the crack above them.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the family and the diver. I have none for what the DM/Operation is facing. They asked for it by relying on the "we do this all the time and no one gets hurt argument." Well someone did. And now I hope they pay through the nose. The training that tells a group to blindly follow a DM and they will be safe also has a hand in this.

In fact an industry that allows this stuff to go on with lots of handwringing for a few days and expressions of sympathy does as well. Because that's all that happens. Nothing changes and in fact it seems to get worse every year.

I wonder how much easier DAN's mission would be if practices like this stopped?

 

[Ron Lee]

Another duplicate error

 

[redacted]

Simple answer is this. Stay the heck out of overheads of any kind unless you have the training and experience for it.
Next dive ops need to ask if anyone does not have overhead training or experience. If they don't the DM does not take the group through any. Or they send those without on another boat.
If a DM/Guide takes a non overhead trained or experienced diver through one they lose their card and job.
Entering overhead environments with new OW divers is stupid with the training or lack of it that many of them have today. Ops that do deserve bad press, loss of business, and hopefully fail.

This "it's only a swim thru" BS may have had benign beginnings. But it has been taken too far and has in fact resulted in deaths of people not trained for diving in overheads. A body length or so that two divers can pass through side by side might be a swim thru depending on conditions and the divers. The Devil's throat is not a friggin swim thru. I used to think the bridge of the Spiegel was one due to the big holes cut in the roof that you can exit out of.

After getting overhead training that opinion has changed. A diver could get hung up on one of those holes and panic. They could get cut coming up through and panic. I did an arch in Monterrey that was very wide and a group could easily pass through at 70 ft. At 15 on up though it got real narrow and jagged, such that a diver that lost buoyancy control could get wedged in it 10 feet from the surface. And if they had lost their buddy or pancked would drown while looking at the surface in the crack above them.

I have no a great deal of sympathy for the family and the diver. I have none for what the DM/Operation is facing. They asked for it by relying on the "we do this all the time and no one gets hurt argument." Well someone did. And now I hope they pay through the nose. The training that tells a group to blindly follow a DM and they will be safe also has a hand in this.

In fact an industry that allows this stuff to go on with lots of handwringing for a few days and expressions of sympathy does as well. Because that's all that happens. Nothing changes and in fact it seems to get worse every year.

I wonder how much easier DAN's mission would be if practices like this stopped?

Unfortunately, that is fairy tale stuff. Swim-throughs are as much a part of Cozumel diving as guns are a part of the American culture. Right, wrong, or indifferent; it is not going to change.

What can change is the vetting process and safeguards while conducting those dives.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I know. but I doubt that will either. The body count is not high enough yet. And the money keeps rolling in.

 

[Darol]

Jim said:

Simple answer is this. Stay the heck out of overheads of any kind unless you have the training and experience for it.

Indeed....

Jim also said:

Entering overhead environments with new OW divers is stupid with the training or lack of it that many of them have today. Ops that do deserve bad press, loss of business, and hopefully fail.

My best friend is taking diving lessons as we speak, yesterday she asked me why they were diving an overhead enviroment? Right On P.A.D.I. My thoughts exactly.....

 

[Christi]

I have a great deal of sympathy for the family and the diver. I have none for what the DM/Operation is facing. They asked for it by relying on the "we do this all the time and no one gets hurt argument." Well someone did. And now I hope they pay through the nose. The training that tells a group to blindly follow a DM and they will be safe also has a hand in this.


I wonder how much easier DAN's mission would be if practices like this stopped?

It is NOT CONFIRMED that she actually did the swim through - I know that is not your entire point - I know that you are speaking in general on your rants about swim through's - but you are condemning the dive op/DM without knowing ANY FACTS! Are you really going to condemn the dive operation if the first and mst prevalent theory is proven true? That the lost diver swam away from the group????

AS far as the money rolling in - that is just laughable - none of us are getting rich or even wealthy - so tired of people assuming and claiming this! And even so, "money rolling in" - do you go to work and expect to be paid for your job/service you are providing? Of course money is coming in - but there are a vast amount of expenses going OUT at a highly disproportionate ratio. If you don't believe me, if you are still one of those that doesn't get the overhead involved - come spend a week with me and watch how much money actually goes into my pocket! You will be astonished at how very little I get by on - and no, it is not CHEAP to live in Cozumel!

 

[vincent54]

My initial thought was to condemn the diveop, but there is so little confirmed, real information no judgement can be reached.It is an unsolved mystery for the time being. Maybe the Buddies can fill in some details, and end the speculating. The fact of the matter, without a body we don't even know what the status of the diver is. I thought she was listed as missing.

 

[billt4sf]

My initial thought was to condemn the diveop, but there is so little confirmed, real information no judgement can be reached..

I'm pretty sure that plenty of diveops take people on dives they are not ready for, with the "its only a swim through" and "no one has ever gotten hurt here" arguments.

- Bill

 

[DevilDog3/7]

Once the call went out about a missing diver almost all dive ops came to help