Diver Indicted in 2003 GBR mishap

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I saw this MSNBC rebroadcast recently - it was an hour special. It freaked me out - but, it really sounded like the husband was guilty!

A good producer can make a report that makes a guilty person look innocent or an innocent person look guilty. Good "news" that sells advertising space is inflammatory, not unbiased and fair. The examples are too numerous to count.
 
The concept of "hearsay evidence" is much misunderstood or wilfully misinterpreted, not least by members of the legal profession. I don't know why, as it's such a simple logical concept - if I heard something being said and report it that is not hearsay. ...

Now for my 2 psi:

In terms of evidence that may be used in court, the basic rule is that, subject to a handful of exceptions, hearsay statements are not admissible.

So, what is a hearsay statement?

A hearsay statement is a statement that is made out of court, but which is sought to be introduced in court to prove the truth of the matter which is the subject of the statement. For example, if I hear someone say that he is certified as a dive master and I then testify that I heard him make this statement, it is hearsay if I am offering the statement to prove the person is actually certified as a dive master.

This, of course, helps explain why hearsay statements are generally not admissible: They are generally not reliable. Consider this: I can be examined and cross-examined to see if I really heard the statement, but there is no way to test the validity of the statement I heard. In the example above, the jury can evaluate my ability to hear and comprehend, to remember what I heard and to tell the truth. From this, the jury can decide if I heard the person make the statement. However, there is nothing that enables the jury to decide if the person is really a dive master.

A statement is not hearsay if it is being offered to prove something other than the truth of the matter asserted. In the example above, if the testimony is offered to show that the person making the statement was trying to get other divers to follow him on a dive it is not hearsay. If my testimony is to prove something other than that he is certified as a dive master, the judge will frequently tell the jury that they can consider my testimony for the point for which it is being offered, but not for determining if the person is really a dive master.

There are instances in which a statement, which seems to be hearsay, isn't. In some jurisdictions, a statement by a party to the case, which tends to hurt that party is not considered hearsay when it is offered against that party. In other jurisdictions, the statement is still hearsay, but is admissible anyway. In either case, the person against whom it is being offered would not make a damning admission unless it was true and in any event is present in court and can deny or explain the statement.

Sometimes, the statement is one which the law deems to have a special credibility such that if the jury concludes I actually heard it, it can conclude that it was truthful. As noted above, that would include an admission against one's interest. However, excited utterances are also deemed reliable. Thus, a statement by a witness to a remarkable event, spontaneously made at the time of the event is considered to be reliable. Because of the spontaneity and remarkability of the event, the witness won't have had time to fabricate the statement. Additionally, dying declarations or deathbed declarations are deemed reliable. One who is about to die is deemed less likely to lie as there is very little reason to do so.

As a practical matter, when there is no jury, and the judge is performing the function of a jury, the judge may be more liberal in allowing testimony that might otherwise be excluded as hearsay. Such judges often reason that their knowledge of the law and rules of evidence will enable them to either disregard the hearsay statements or to give it only such consideration as "unreliable" evidence warrants.

Turning to the matter of Gabe and Tina, things Gabe said will generally be admissible, either because they are not considered hearsay or because of an exception to the hearsay rule.

Last but not least, I want to point out that many cases have been lost because of the hearsay rule. There is a somewhat infamous case in which someone was injured as the result of a defective part on a motorcycle. The person sued the purported manufacturer. The purported manufacturer argued that the part was not its part, but rather a knock-off that was defectively manufactured by someone else.

To refute this defense, the plaintiff compared the defective part to an exemplar part that the plaintiff subsequently obtained. The comparison showed the two were essentially identical.

The problem was proving that the exemplar was actually made by the purported manufacturer and was not itself a knock-off. To do this, the plaintiff's attorney gave a sworn declaration saying he had purchased the exemplar at a motorcycle shop, that the packaging said that it was made by the defendant and that the internal documentation showed that it was made by the defendant.

The court ruled that the plaintiff had not established its exemplar was made by the defendant and that as a result, it did not matter that it was identical to the part that caused the injury. While no one doubted that the attorney purchased the exemplar or that the packaging and documentation said it was made by the defendant, there was no way to test the truth of the assertions made in the packaging or documentation as to the origin of the exemplar. Anyone making knock-offs could have put the defendant's name on the packaging or have duplicated its documentation.

We may never know whether the exemplar was genuine or a knock-off. But, one thing is for sure: The plaintiff lost because the court ruled the statements in the packaging and documentation were hearsay and not admissible.
 
A hearsay statement is a statement that is made out of court, but which is sought to be introduced in court to prove the truth of the matter which is the subject of the statement. For example, if I hear someone say that he is certified as a dive master and I then testify that I heard him make this statement, it is hearsay if I am offering the statement to prove the person is actually certified as a dive master

I am not a practising lawyer (though I do have legal training), nor do I know the US legal system, but I don't agree with this. Without doubt the statement by the individual that he is a divemaster is not proof that he is, whether made by him or by me after having heard him. But that is not because it becomes "hearsay", and that aspect is in fact irrelevant.

"Hearsay" is not one gobbledegook word conjured up by the legal profession, but a two-word term often used in a legal context that has acquired a new single-word identity. Even so it is not well defined according to the normal English meanings of those words. The meaning I outlined is totally logical and was as spelled out by the late and great English judge Lord Denning, who was constantly concerned with substance over form.

Maybe it's different in the US system, which I believe owes far more to Roman law than does the English system. But we're here concerned with Australia, which I suspect follows much more closely on the English system. As the American-trained lawyers found out in the case in Belize, another Commonwealth country. As I said above, the judge ruled that what they kept insisting was "hearsay" was not, and the statements were admissable to the court.
 
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I was on the spoilsport last yr and so my interest was piqued by this case. I have no legal training (masters in finance) so I can only draw from various reports of the other couple with the picture showing the wife on the bottom with minimal current messing with their bubbles, the divemaster that accually rescued her, and the rescue diver husbands description of strong currents at the same time, how long he took to get to the surface (he said he hurried, his computer said he lollygagged), how fast the divemaster was able to go down, get her and return to the surface compared to how fast the husbands computer showd he made the trip, The hug between husband and new wife where he had the opportunity to turn off her air and hold her till she stopped struggling (yes that is massive conjecture on my part) The husbands description of how her mask was torn and she lost her reg due to the terrific current yet the divemaster found her mask on ..., Yeah, I kind of think he may have had something to do with it. By the way let's not forget his insisting on her switching beneficiary on her insurance from her dad to himself to the point she was nervous, mentioned it to her dad and did not make the switch in although she made the error (perhaps the fatal error) of telling her husband he was the beneficiary. I don't know which of those will be heresay but I would think enough is direct evidence that the hubby is in trouble.
 
I am not a practising lawyer (though I do have legal training), nor do I know the US legal system, but I don't agree with this. Without doubt the statement by the individual that he is a divemaster is not proof that he is, whether made by him or by me after having heard him. But that is not because it becomes "hearsay", and that aspect is in fact irrelevant.

"Hearsay" is not one gobbledegook word conjured up by the legal profession, but a two-word term often used in a legal context that has acquired a new single-word identity. Even so it is not well defined according to the normal English meanings of those words. The meaning I outlined is totally logical and was as spelled out by the late and great English judge Lord Denning, who was constantly concerned with substance over form.

Maybe it's different in the US system, which I believe owes far more to Roman law than does the English system. But we're here concerned with Australia, which I suspect follows much more closely on the English system. As the American-trained lawyers found out in the case in Belize, another Commonwealth country. As I said above, the judge ruled that what they kept insisting was "hearsay" was not, and the statements were admissable to the court.

My knowledge is of the California Evidence Code and the cases interpreting it, the Federal Rules of Evidence (U.S.) and the cases interpreting it, and the English Common Law from which the foregoing were adopted. (Except for Louisiana, which was a French possession and still uses some of the Napoleonic Code, U.S. laws come from England. Roman law is irrelevant in the U.S. Even California and the other southwestern states uses English Common Law except for the Spanish principle of Community Property.) They are all quite similar when it comes to the admissibility of second-hand statements, which are termed "hearsay."

Simply put, I can offer evidence that a particular traffic light was green at the moment of a car crash by testifying that I saw that the traffic signal was green. I cannot try to prove it was green by testifying that my brother told me that he saw that the traffic signal was green.

In the first case, the lawyers can examine me about my ability to have seen the light, my ability to recall what I had seen, any biases I might have, etc. They can elicit information that will enable a jury to decide if I am telling the truth when I say I saw that the light was green.

In the second case, the lawyers can examine me about my ability to have heard what my brother said, to recall what he said, any biases I might have, etc. They can elicit information that would enable a jury to decide if I am telling the truth about what my brother told me. However, there is no way they can elicit information from me that would enable a jury to determine if my brother was telling the truth about the color of the light. As a result I cannot offer testimony about what my brother told me if I am offering it to try to prove the color of the light. To find out what my brother has to say about the color of the light, someone would need to call my brother as a witness and test his credibility.

Of course, if my brother was a party to the lawsuit and his statement that the light was green hurt his position, then his statement to me would be admissible.

Without a transcript, I cannot comment on evidence offered or rulings made in a case in Belize.

(How did we get on the topic of hearsay anyway?)

The bottom line: What is or isn't admissible is often a question of whether it has probative value and either a degree of reliability.
 
question at this point is more in the direction of.. good god, is he gonna get convicted or not anytime soon :p
 
Bruce - what you say in your last post is what I have been saying, and not what you were saying earlier.

Why are we talking about "hearsay"? - because someone used it as part of his argument a few posts ago.

Does anyone know when our friend might appear in court?
 
I thought more about what I said earlier about how, without Gabe's statements, the prosecution would have no case. Actually, even though Gabe's statements definitely helps the prosecution's case, I still think the prosecution still has a strong case without his statements. Here is why: The eye witness stated that a male diver had Tina in a bear hug, his arms around her, he saw the fear in Tina's eyes, but he thought the male diver was trying to rescue her. Then the male diver let go of her and "let" her sink to the bottom. The eye witness realized that there was no attempt to save Tina, the male diver let her go and let her sink. This is in direct contradiction to Gabe's statement on the surface that he had "lost" her. Even though the eye witness did not see Gabe turn off Tina's air, he did see the male diver "let go" of Tina and let her sink. At that point, the eye witness knew that Tina was in real trouble and was going to go for help when he saw the instructor go after Tina. The eye witness saw the instructor bringing Tina to the surface and vomit coming from her mouth. The eye witness at that point, being a doctor, knew that Tina's situation was grim.

It doesn't matter whether or not Gabe talked to the police. You don't come to the surface without your dive buddy and say nothing. And Gabe's proclomation and statements after he surfaced directly contradicts the eye witness testimony. This eye witness testimony will have much more impact on this case than people have given it on this forum. It is not "hearsay" because the eye witness was a witness to actions, not words. Since the eye witness is a doctor, his testimony is going to have a great deal of credibility.
 
This is in direct contradiction to Gabe's statement on the surface that he had "lost" her.

And also in direct contradiction to (one of) Gabe's (16 different) statements that he repeatedly tried to dive down towards her, but couldn't because he couldn't equalize, while the Dr saw her simply fall with no attempt by Gabe to go after her - AND Gabe's computer recorded him steady at 40 feet, no dips downward, and then his excruciatingly slow ascent. The Dr's eyewitness statement also contradicts Gabe's statement that Tina had knocked off his mask and knocked his reg out of his mouth and that while replacing his reg and mask, he let go of her and she sank - the Dr saw nothing of the sort. Also, IIRC, after Gabe was informed by the police that there was an eyewitness (Dr) to a bear hug, that is when he changed his story again and said that he was trying to hold onto her, but couldn't.
 
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