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Diver Indicted in 2003 GBR mishap
- Thread starter shakeybrainsurgeon
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A bear hug they say?
Im trying to look at this practically. A bear hug requires strength for it to be effective. Add to this the scuba gear and an underwater environment and you have a challenging feat.
He didnt realize that people were watching him, so some say, but then wouldnt that have meant seeing him actually turn off her air? That would be helpful. Also, does the bear hug include what must have been a struggle? Did they see this happen, and if so why not react.
Perhaps the 2 minute ascent was meant to be a controlled ascent. One of the first rules of rescue diving is not to get yourself killed. If you do, you are of no help to the person underwater. If he thought (mistakenly though this might have been) that she wasnt in immediate danger, he might well have taken more time to ascend. Leaving a buddy like this seems odd to me, and I wouldnt do it. Maybe he lost it and made bad choices.
If they were at depth for some time before the incident, a slower ascent would have been prudent. He would certainly have needed a minute to ascent. Is 2 minutes really something that paints him as a murderer?
That he doesnt want to return to Australia is troubling, but I think troubling becomes more poignant when you have actual evidence pointing to him that is tangible. Perhaps they have this and are holding it under the table so to speak. For him to not to want to go could be a sign of survivor guilt, or it could be a sign of a man who is trying to move on. It could be that he is guilty also, I admit. Does the US have an extradition treaty with Australia?
Cheers!
Im trying to look at this practically. A bear hug requires strength for it to be effective. Add to this the scuba gear and an underwater environment and you have a challenging feat.
He didnt realize that people were watching him, so some say, but then wouldnt that have meant seeing him actually turn off her air? That would be helpful. Also, does the bear hug include what must have been a struggle? Did they see this happen, and if so why not react.
Perhaps the 2 minute ascent was meant to be a controlled ascent. One of the first rules of rescue diving is not to get yourself killed. If you do, you are of no help to the person underwater. If he thought (mistakenly though this might have been) that she wasnt in immediate danger, he might well have taken more time to ascend. Leaving a buddy like this seems odd to me, and I wouldnt do it. Maybe he lost it and made bad choices.
If they were at depth for some time before the incident, a slower ascent would have been prudent. He would certainly have needed a minute to ascent. Is 2 minutes really something that paints him as a murderer?
That he doesnt want to return to Australia is troubling, but I think troubling becomes more poignant when you have actual evidence pointing to him that is tangible. Perhaps they have this and are holding it under the table so to speak. For him to not to want to go could be a sign of survivor guilt, or it could be a sign of a man who is trying to move on. It could be that he is guilty also, I admit. Does the US have an extradition treaty with Australia?
Cheers!
Tigerman
Contributor
Lets just say that if I was SUSPECTED to have done anything illegal in the US, I wouldnt get on an airplane to go there either, even knowing I was innocent. If things where looking murky enough, theres always a risk of being wrongfully imprisoned, just as guilty people sometimes, no lets be honest, often go free (atleast for a while).
Seriously, if I was trying to 'knock someone off' I don't think this is the way I'd go about it. Clear water, other people around, high risk or people seeing what is going on.
I've seen people get their rescue cards after _actually_ having to be rescued on a rescue course (ugly) so that means nothing in my book.
Slow ascent gets drilled into peoples heads. If he was ascending at 30 feet per minute, then I would expect him to take over a minute to ascend. Is that smart in that situation? Did he attempt a rescue? Was he a good buddy? They all sound like "no" to me.
Does that mean murder ... going to be tough to prove.
Just my $0.02
I've seen people get their rescue cards after _actually_ having to be rescued on a rescue course (ugly) so that means nothing in my book.
Slow ascent gets drilled into peoples heads. If he was ascending at 30 feet per minute, then I would expect him to take over a minute to ascend. Is that smart in that situation? Did he attempt a rescue? Was he a good buddy? They all sound like "no" to me.
Does that mean murder ... going to be tough to prove.
Just my $0.02
Plus the endless appeals against deportation which can take years. Also if its a capital offence lots of countries (all of europe and i believe australia) have rules about not allowing deportation if that's a possible outcome.
You can do a LOT to delay and obstruct by not going to a country and waste a lot of time before they get their hands on you - plus by not giving evidence they have to prove enough to get an international arrest warrant which is easier said than done.
Must admit the choice of location - a GUIDED dive trip with other divers in a clear good vis area does seem very odd to me but then again, most criminals are stupid and generally don't think things through.
He may just get away with it though - lots of evidence there but no one piece of it seems to be absolutely certain.
Tigerman
Contributor
Is there any statistics saying that most criminals are stupid? Cause I seriously dont think the intelligence of criminals is much different from those whos not criminals. Of course, theres probably huge gray areas there since the ones that get caught obviously screwed up.
I know quite a few criminals and their intelligence isnt what separate most of them from the rest of us.
I do also know atleast a murderer (he was convicted and I never doubted for a second that he was guilty, nor did anyone else that knew him) and he is actually quite intelligent. Problem is of course also that hes got clear psychopathic tendencies and bad impulse control as well as his moral standards being FUBAR. The reason why he got caught? He tilted completely over a $5 item bought with someone elses creditcard without permission and beat the guy that did it to death.. There was also witnesses to the event.
Long story short being irrational or losing control isnt neccesarilly a matter of intelligence?
IF this was a murder (thats still a HUGE IF and I think we all hope its not the case) it might not have been planned at all, it could just be a impuls that he was not able to control and "just did it".
Well, I have read all the posts and I also googled the accident and read all of the articles. There are many inconsistancies in the different articles that I read, but something remains the same. That is the general feeling that this was either a preventable accident or murder. I do see motive on the hubbys part, but that is speculation on my part. I dont know how he was trained, but I dont just pass out Rescue Diver cards to anyone willing to pay for it. I run my Rescue Divers thru a course that is designed to teach them how to assist, and to realize their limits so that they do not cause harm to themselves. One rescue scenerio that we go over intensly is the unconscious diver underwater. I believe that with the depth that this dive was at probably 8 out of 10 of us would not have gone to the surface, or taken our time to do so. Now, factor in that this is our new spouse. They said that her air was on, there was air in her tank, and her regulator was in her mouth. Now, why did she suffocate? Also big point is that the hubby claimed strong current, but as many have pointed out, the picture does not reflect that. No air in her BCD either? Too many questions that dont have good answers here. I am sorry, ear trouble as a reason for not going down a few feet to save his wife? I have at times been forced to decend faster than my ears wanted too. An ear ache is a small price to pay for saving the life of anyone, especially that of your wife. I am sure not judge and jury so I am sorry if my feelings are wrong, but I believe that this looks like foul play.
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