A point that is often missed when people mention that the highest pressure differential is from 33 feet to the surface, is that it isn't just the last 33 feet. The closer to the surface you are, the larger the percentage expansion there is for a give change in depth. What this means is that the 12 feet from 12 feet down to the surface has more of an effect on your lungs than the 12 feet from 33 feet down to 21 feet down, and it certainly enough to cause an embolism. When our club does our 'Try scuba' night in the pool, we keep them in the shallow end for this very reason. It really doesn't take very much of a change in depth to cause an embolism, if the diver is holding their breath
Diver dies at Casino Point Avalon Catalina!
- Thread starter Papa_Bear
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We are probly not going to know the Why of the ascent. Ken would you like to tell us of your findings on the equipment?
It does indeed sound like there was a 12 ft ascent with breath hold that must have happened right after he gave the Inst the OK sign while the Inst was signaling to the other student. Caca hits the fan so fast at times below.
Our take away on this seems to be another, very strong reminder of why we never, ever hold our breath on ascent and remind others as appropriate. It sounds like Dave was a helluva guy, not one to be proned to panic spooking; if it can happen to him, it can happen to any of us - so don't let it.
It does indeed sound like there was a 12 ft ascent with breath hold that must have happened right after he gave the Inst the OK sign while the Inst was signaling to the other student. Caca hits the fan so fast at times below.
Our take away on this seems to be another, very strong reminder of why we never, ever hold our breath on ascent and remind others as appropriate. It sounds like Dave was a helluva guy, not one to be proned to panic spooking; if it can happen to him, it can happen to any of us - so don't let it.
I have been in many and I do mean many life threatening situations with Dave at my side and I have to say he was the one of the coolest men I have ever seen under pressure in a dangerous situation. In his profession as law enforcement he was nothing but officer safety not just on duty but 24/7 and drilled it into all of us from start to finish to help us survive. He was not one to take any short cuts and was always open for a better way if it was safer not shorter. I could never see him panic even at a new sport like diving. Like posted before 82 airborne, black belt/instructor, 30 year Sgt/Range master, and under cover work with DEA so he was the safest of safe and coolest of cool and listen to his instructors and trainers. Thank you so much for your comments and replies. I wish everyone long life with many many great dives. All who are not divers but have read you replies will always be grateful and think of all on the board as very kind, friendly people who help us in a time of confusion.
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I'm stumped CWEBX2. From following this thread and the input from those who knew Dave personally, knew the Instructor well, were there around the scene even tho possibly confused on some "eye witness" facts, and it doesn't make sense. Dave had a lot more time under fire than I ever have so I agree that it would sound totally unlike him to panic, or forget a safety point so basic as never hold your breath on ascent. Just doesn't click, but - I dunno? No other mistakes or failures seem even remotely possible, other than maybe a BC inflator valve possibly sticking - except even that remote possibility does not seem like one to have caused this as he'd still have to hold his breath...?
Even tho this is the Accidents forum and not Passings/Condolences, it is still a sad loss of one who certainly earned his right to enjoy a fun sport in retirement to be senselessly lost. Damn!
I am grateful that you see us and our discussion as "kind, friendly people who help us in a time of confusion" as that's certainly our intent here, but some of us err a bit thinking outloud on keyboards at times.
best wishes with your recovery...
Even tho this is the Accidents forum and not Passings/Condolences, it is still a sad loss of one who certainly earned his right to enjoy a fun sport in retirement to be senselessly lost. Damn!
I am grateful that you see us and our discussion as "kind, friendly people who help us in a time of confusion" as that's certainly our intent here, but some of us err a bit thinking outloud on keyboards at times.
best wishes with your recovery...
EagleDiver
Registered
Forgetting to never hold your breath isn't necessarily related to panic. Holding your breath underwater is a natural reaction. Even calm new divers can sometimes forget this cardinal rule. After 4 years and 130+ dives I still take a moment before splashing to remind myself 'don't hold your breath, no matter what happens'.
As for the reason for the ascent in this case we may never know for sure, but it's possible to make a logical guess, and it doesn't have to involve equipment issues (although it might). It's all too common for new divers to have trouble with buoyancy control, and it's at shallow depths where this proves most challenging. I've personally witnessed uncontrolled ascents that had nothing to do with equipment and everything to do with problems managing buoyancy. No matter how excellent the instruction, and no matter how diligent the student diver, buoyancy control is always a challenge.
As for the reason for the ascent in this case we may never know for sure, but it's possible to make a logical guess, and it doesn't have to involve equipment issues (although it might). It's all too common for new divers to have trouble with buoyancy control, and it's at shallow depths where this proves most challenging. I've personally witnessed uncontrolled ascents that had nothing to do with equipment and everything to do with problems managing buoyancy. No matter how excellent the instruction, and no matter how diligent the student diver, buoyancy control is always a challenge.
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Yeah EagleD - I've seen many times that the inflator and deflator button were confused. I think I had some problems myself early on. I use the dump valve instead.
EagleDiver
Registered
Don, you don't even need to press the wrong button (although I've seen that happen too). At shallow depths an extra large intake of breath or an errant kick or even twisting around to look at a fish can unsettle buoyancy enough for an unplanned take off to the surface. If that happens at shallow depths, you don't have much time to think about how to stop your ascent.
av8nflyguy1
Registered
To all who have written here,
My family and I thank you for your kind words and thoughts for someone, most of you never knew. Whatever caused David to surface in such an uncontrolled way will never be known. It has become plain to me that everyone associated with this ill fated dive did everything in a logical and moral manner. Absolute professionalism, kindness and concern for David existed at every turn. I have been a diver since 1975, with over 200 dives. I think of the myriad instances where something happens and the last dive could have been truly my last. Since my last posting, I was again sent to Puerto Rico. I was able to have my 15 year old son, Alex, come spend a week with me. During his stay, he was going to do a "Discover" dive, but the dive shop owner suggested that he could complete the qualification in a week if he was willing to be completely dedicated to the class. I dove with the class all that week. We did 11 dives in 5 days. Through the course of the class, I got a picture in which Alex had a fully grown dolphin swim alongside. I have a picture with Alex holding a 7 inch tall Sea Horse in his open palm. I watched him swim with a Sea Turtle, flying through the water, airplane style over the top of the turtle. I watched him go nose to nose with a Moray Eel. We did a swim through in "the Blue Hole" that was just amazing. 70 foot visibility, in 80 degree water. I told Alex that this was what I wished for Uncle Dave, and to think of him as we enjoyed every minute in this incredible adventure. On our last dive, I had a situation where I choked on some sea water. Without thinking I pulled out my regulator, and trying to breathe, gulped a large bit of seawater. I looked to the surface some 30 feet away, but remembered all I been trained to do, and immediately got back on my regulator and coughed through it. I'm an experienced diver, who became so comfortable in his environment, that he forgot where he was and how unforgiving this world can be. David did not have my experience to fall back on. He was the victim of terrible circumstance, and awful luck. Sometimes spit just happens. I miss David terribly, as do all of his family and friends. For me, this incident brings home the fact that, in the end, we only have our life experiences, family, and friends to account for our time here. I thank each of you for your kind words and wishes, and implore you all to never let time pass without telling your loved ones just how important they are, and how much you love them. To be grateful for the wonders that we divers experience each time we go down. To never become so comfortable or complacent the we forget how unforgiving our environment can be. I hope we never forget that the last time we say goodbye to loved ones, could well be the "last time" and that we didn't pass up a chance to say "I love you".
Dale Pike
My family and I thank you for your kind words and thoughts for someone, most of you never knew. Whatever caused David to surface in such an uncontrolled way will never be known. It has become plain to me that everyone associated with this ill fated dive did everything in a logical and moral manner. Absolute professionalism, kindness and concern for David existed at every turn. I have been a diver since 1975, with over 200 dives. I think of the myriad instances where something happens and the last dive could have been truly my last. Since my last posting, I was again sent to Puerto Rico. I was able to have my 15 year old son, Alex, come spend a week with me. During his stay, he was going to do a "Discover" dive, but the dive shop owner suggested that he could complete the qualification in a week if he was willing to be completely dedicated to the class. I dove with the class all that week. We did 11 dives in 5 days. Through the course of the class, I got a picture in which Alex had a fully grown dolphin swim alongside. I have a picture with Alex holding a 7 inch tall Sea Horse in his open palm. I watched him swim with a Sea Turtle, flying through the water, airplane style over the top of the turtle. I watched him go nose to nose with a Moray Eel. We did a swim through in "the Blue Hole" that was just amazing. 70 foot visibility, in 80 degree water. I told Alex that this was what I wished for Uncle Dave, and to think of him as we enjoyed every minute in this incredible adventure. On our last dive, I had a situation where I choked on some sea water. Without thinking I pulled out my regulator, and trying to breathe, gulped a large bit of seawater. I looked to the surface some 30 feet away, but remembered all I been trained to do, and immediately got back on my regulator and coughed through it. I'm an experienced diver, who became so comfortable in his environment, that he forgot where he was and how unforgiving this world can be. David did not have my experience to fall back on. He was the victim of terrible circumstance, and awful luck. Sometimes spit just happens. I miss David terribly, as do all of his family and friends. For me, this incident brings home the fact that, in the end, we only have our life experiences, family, and friends to account for our time here. I thank each of you for your kind words and wishes, and implore you all to never let time pass without telling your loved ones just how important they are, and how much you love them. To be grateful for the wonders that we divers experience each time we go down. To never become so comfortable or complacent the we forget how unforgiving our environment can be. I hope we never forget that the last time we say goodbye to loved ones, could well be the "last time" and that we didn't pass up a chance to say "I love you".
Dale Pike
Wow. What a classy family. Thank you, Pikes. I did not know Dave, but I have read enough to know he must have been a wonderful guy, as shown through the testimonials and attitudes of his family and friends. May God continue to give you all peace.
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