Diver Death Virginia Beach

[sailingk8]

In my short dive career I have dove with six different dive operators both six pack and cattle boats and what I have learned is regardless of the operator, you as the diver are responsible for your own safety as a diver, other than, as stated, the taxi ride out and back. We as divers are the only ones who ultimately know what we are capable of on that given day. I was on the Miss Lindsey when Kevin died. I've dove with him before, was there when he did some of his tech training. I was in the court room for the trial. The dive was not a complicated one but Kevin was dressed for Tech and before I jumped I looked over and asked him if he was ok. He looked a little stressed but Kevin was always a little stressed when he dove, and being in a drysuit and doubles he must have been a bit taxed getting off the boat. He jumped after I did and I didn't see him again until I surfaced. We waited on the bottom because the hang line was full of students. When he didn't show we thought he had technical issues on the boat. We proceeded with a wreck reel deployment and did a short tour of the wreck. When we surfaced he was on the deck receiving CPR.

The crew that day did what they thought was best to help Kevin and I know they were devastated by his death. The Coast Guard did what ever they could in the trial to make something, anything stick. It was very clear they had no one on their team who knew anything about diving which I personally thought a bit odd under the circumstances. I guess their main effort was to find fault with the boat's rescue proceedures. I find the whole episode sad, especially for Kevin's daughters and family but also for the crew on the boat. I'm not sure they could have done anything differently with the given circumstances. Kevin is and will continue to be missed. RIP KK.

I would like to add that a lovely memorial was placed on the Santori for Kevin by his friends and if you ever get the chance to see it, tell him we send our love.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think that while it is easy to say we are all responsible for our safety and need to make good decisions about the dives we plan to do, it is clear to me that in many cases, especially this one, things can go wrong that are beyond our control. Was this dive within Kevin's established limits? Absolutely--very much so. What about his actions on the surface? It seems to me that he was acting very strangely for a diver of his experience. His helplessness defies explanation without a medical reason. Some thought he had a heart attack, but that was apparently not the case. If not, though, there are a number of other medical issues that could cause such helplessness without being linked to a cardiac condition. He could have had some sort of ischemic attack, similar to a stroke, that could impair not only his motor functions but his ability to think and act coherently as well.

If that happens, it does not matter how well we are trained. It does not matter if we believe we are in control of our own dives. If that happens, we become instantly dependent upon others, and we can only hope that those others will act appropriately and according to their training.

 

[sailingk8]

This is all true, but as divers we know our own health and what we are physically capable of on any given day. So often we see divers who aren't even close to top physical condition and unless a person appears ill would a crew member prevent such a person from splashing? Do we expect the crew to take care of us if we have an emergency, of course. Accidents happen, and you hope that the crew will be able to help but we are all human and sometimes the chips fall in a way that prevent a good outcome. Have you ever trained and trained on something only to have an incident happen that doesn't quite go right and despite your training things go wrong. The crew of the Miss Lindsey had one of those days.

 

[Wookie]

Read here in Kevin's own words what happened to him when he got in the water....

 

[Max Speed]

Change title of thread to:

"Captain screwed by Monday Night Quarterbacking Nanny State Bureaucrats"

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Abdullah]

Change title of thread to:

"Captain screwed by Monday Night Quarterbacking Nanny State Bureaucrats"

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2

It sounds like the CG was enforcing regulations common to all commercial vessels carrying passengers. The "diving" casualty wasn't relevant to their findings, it was the trigger that got them looking. Divers tend to be rugged individualists who cherish their freedom in the water and are serious about individual responsibility. But the rules for the commercial boat operators are designed to protect all passengers, not just the ones who aren't divers.

If you want to dive outside your nanny state, come to the middle east. In the last 3 years I've been on two boats that had to rescue divers in the water because their boats sank at dive sites(maintenance failures in calm seas), I've been stranded when a boat left and didn't come back for the divers (picked up by a fisherman), and I've administered oxygen to a recreational diver with my deco gas because the boat didn't keep emergency gear on board. All these operators ticked a dive agency box at some point and claimed they were following their dive safety procedures, but discontinued the safe practices because no one here checks to see if the operators are running a safe boat.

While some boats are great operators because they have great leadership, the threat of CG prosecution, loss of license, and litigation is precisely why some US operators maintain safe practices when they would be more profitable if they let those practices lapse.

 

[kwinter]

Change title of thread to:

"Captain screwed by Monday Night Quarterbacking Nanny State Bureaucrats"

I'm glad you have such respect for the rules established to protect us. I hope you read the full decision before responding. While I do feel the ALJ might have been a bit harsh in the sanction by exceeding the recommendations in the statute, he did give less than the CG asked for. I am basing my opinion on the facts as stated in the decision document here. http://www.uscg.mil/alj/decisions/2013/SR-2013-14_Bryson.pdf

Please keep in mind that although the crew did react to the emergency, they did not react according to established protocol. Why no one thought to throw a life ring to a guy struggling to stay on the surface is beyond me. Even though he was wearing a flotation device, it was obviously not working. And when the DM jumped in the water with no flotation device of his own except his wetsuit pants, that was a clear violation of standards as well.

The crew meant well. And these situations thankfully do not come up often. But despite their efforts, they did not act according to established guidelines and a man died. That is why emergency situations are supposed to be drilled. Ordinarily I point out that he probably would have died anyway, but I just can't do that in this case. If he had been kept on the surface and brought to the boat instead of submerging and then being recovered minutes later, he had a much better chance of survival.

I feel bad for all the parties involved. More importantly, this decision will have widespread implications for all dive boat operators.

 

[Max Speed]

I get it. A rule that covers every situation. I'm sure throwing a life preserver to a guy who couldn't even reach his inflator would've made a huge difference.

Reads to me that the crew thought it best to get in the water fast instead of screwing around with life preservers. It's called making a quick decision. Like shoot/no shoot. Sometimes the hostage takes a round.

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[boulderjohn]

I get it. A rule that covers every situation. I'm sure throwing a life preserver to a guy who couldn't even reach his inflator would've made a huge difference.

Perhaps you missed some key details when you read the report. The problem was not that he could not reach his inflator--it is that for some reason he did not reach his inflator. His helpless actions on the surface, given that he was a highly trained diver, suggest he was having some kind of a medical event. Even if he had not grasped a ring buoy thrown to him, had the rescuers entered the water with flotation devices, they could have kept him afloat long enough to deal effectively with the emergency.

Reads to me that the crew thought it best to get in the water fast instead of screwing around with life preservers. It's called making a quick decision. Like shoot/no shoot. Sometimes the hostage takes a round.

You make faulty decisions when you are not properly trained. As the decision points out, bringing a flotation device into the water with you while effecting a rescue is taught to anyone who takes the SSI Stress and Rescue course. I am not sure why the decision cites SSI--possibly the operator was associated with that agency. My personal experience is with PADI, and I assure you that taking such a device with you when entering the water is a critical part of the Rescue Diver course. The course also teaches you that the little bit of extra time it takes to enter the water properly equipped is worth it.

Even the PADI basic open water course stresses the importance of getting struggling divers buoyant on the surface. It is the correct answer to two different questions on the knowledge reviews, and it is on the final exam.

The report points out that proper equipment was not readily available, as it is supposed to be, and the crew was not trained to use it, as they are supposed to be. Further, it points out that the person directing them gave them directions contrary to such basic training. The quick decisions made should have been guided by training, not personal impulses. That is why the actions were taken by the court.

 

[kimbee1994]

Randy g, Please enough of this already! There is ZERO EVIDENCE my Uncle died of a heart attack or any medical condition related to his heart!!! You from day one told different family members different stories, none which an autopsy showed any signs of. I am tired of hearing people tell me who know of the situation what you claim happened. My Uncle Kevin died doing what he loved END OFSTORY. AS for the Coast Guard they did an excellent job in their investigation and our family finally hs closure. The Coast Guard and Judge found there to be an issue. At least his death will be a lesson so it never happens again. Please stop this rant you still are on and get closure yourself. Sailingk8 please looked Stressed thats the first any of us heard that. You and your boyfriend Randy g were around family and NEVER said that. I have one question for the two of you, HOW DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU WERE UNDER WATER DIVING, and my Uncle was already on deck getting CPR. You rant for a year heart attack, stroke, eye bulge uet you have no clue. Medical autopsy proved you wrong, yet Nov 5 you still put it out there this crap. Please end it! Tired of seeing your quotes

---------- Post added November 10t