Diver Death in Cayman

[fosterboxermom]

I am trying very hard to answer everyones inquires and to be honest. As to the autopsy yes they can detect being narcked in the tissue and they had his dive computer. So there was a detailed graph of his exact dive the time he entered the water when he hit 184ft 199ft 346ft and the ascended in 2 minutes to the top total dive time 22 minutes. He could have been saved (although impossible under the circumstances) if we knew he went to that depth if we had 4 extra tanks and someone with experience went down to get him and they did the appropriate stops.

 

[pilot fish]

I am trying very hard to answer everyones inquires and to be honest. As to the autopsy yes they can detect being narcked in the tissue and they had his dive computer. So there was a detailed graph of his exact dive the time he entered the water when he hit 184ft 199ft 346ft and the ascended in 2 minutes to the top total dive time 22 minutes. He could have been saved (although impossible under the circumstances) if we knew he went to that depth if we had 4 extra tanks and someone with experience went down to get him and they did the appropriate stops.

No diver going to 346 ft is going to be able to get to the surface alive or unbent, from 346 ft on one tank. It is my feeling that he could not do it even on two tanks. Even on trimix it's iffy from that depth? Someone know for sure?

 

[cerich]

I am trying very hard to answer everyones inquires and to be honest. As to the autopsy yes they can detect being narcked in the tissue and they had his dive computer. So there was a detailed graph of his exact dive the time he entered the water when he hit 184ft 199ft 346ft and the ascended in 2 minutes to the top total dive time 22 minutes. He could have been saved (although impossible under the circumstances) if we knew he went to that depth if we had 4 extra tanks and someone with experience went down to get him and they did the appropriate stops.

Sorry, the autosy can't tell his narcosis, it would however show physical eveidence of overexpansion injury, which I would expect.

I would have NEVER followed a diver that deep to try and stop him/her, it would be killing myself.

It isn't reasonable to expect to have 4 extra tanks on the dive.

What is reasonable would be to have better site picked, more defined buddy teams and awareness.

 

[baz500]

At 346ft Oxygen toxicity would be kicking in.

How could he be saved? This I don't understand..

 

[fosterboxermom]

hmmm...

I feel the need to comment here, I spent 5 years in the Caymans.

Generally speaking when I read a post like the one fosterboxermom made I would simply write it off as somebody dealing with the effects of what happened. After all isn't a diver ultimatly certified to be a diver?

However, and this is the BIG however because I have no way of knowing for sure. If her report of how it happened is correct then it really was all wrong. You don't take a brand new certified the day before diver on a wall dive to 100 ft and expect it to go well. The best outcome you can expect is the new diver will run out of air quickly and you'll be doing an early end to the dive and ruing it for everybody...the worse sounds like this case.

As for the joking around during the briefing, that is OK, as long as the pertinent safety information is passed along, in fact joking is a valid method of getting attention.

make no mistake a DM (who I am 99% sure holds an instructor cert) guiding a brand new certified the day before diver on a wall dive in Cayman (and Dolphin point is an area where curret is common) is stupid.

Having a diver "get away" from you as a DM/Instructor is something we have all had, but NOT when you are specifically that divers buddy! To continue the dive after losing your buddy and being the guide is stupid. Especially knowing the lost diver only got certified the day before. i would be in a panic....seriously.

Now, I have no way of knowing if the "facts" are correct, but if true it is disappointing.

This kind of stuff is why I will not five with warm water vacation divers unless I'm getting paid to. I also do not look to the dm for anything more than a site briefing and if I feel it's lacking I open my mouth and ask for more info. No one made anyone dive this profile. Properly trained and experienced divers do not do trust me dives and follow like lemmings. I make sure my students know this. If a dm is required on relatively easy dives and is expected to keep everyone safe then those divers should not have certification cards. If the divers do not know their limitations and stick to them regardless of what they are told by a dm or other divers their training sucked, they were not paying attention, or their ego got in the way. In any case the results speak for themselves. Personally I don't want a dm in the water. Better they stay on the boat and out of my dive plan.

If you don't was a DM in the water with you then you are crazy or you know the waters well or have navigation under your belt. But when there are a bunch of people that are new to an area and don't know the waters or the reefs they car all look a like so when I PAY a dive shop I am not just paying for a boat ride and tanks I want a someone in those waters that know the waters, reefs, whatever and can show me where I am and take me on a guided dive and lead me back to the boat safely. I don't claim to be a professional, I never have, I only say I have experience that's it!! But when I go to a foreign country and I don't know where I am then I want a DM in the water that has been diving there for a while because I feel safer that SOMEONE with us knows where we are. And can get us back SAFELY!!!

 

[cerich]

No diver going to 346 ft is going to be able to get to the surface alive or unbent, from 346 ft on one tank. It is my feeling that he could not do it even on two tanks. Even on trimix it's iffy from that depth? Someone know for sure?

how big is the tank?

seriously so unlikely as to not be realistic. Even Cayman DM's (Instructors whatever you want to call them) who have great air consumption would be hard pressed to pull over even a bounce with stops from that depth.

Now just about every cayman DM I know can easily do 200 on a single 80 and still manage the stops, most of the time the tank will be near empty when done.... In the past that wasn't uncommon, thanksfully after FAR to many DM deaths in Cayman that habit has stopped.

 

[fosterboxermom]

At 346ft Oxygen toxicity would be kicking in.

How could he be saved? This I don't understand..

Go back and read my post. I said he could have been saved if we had know ahead of time he went that deep but it would have taken 4 tanks and someone experienced to go down and get him and bring him up slowly with a lot of safety stops. In our case it was impossible because we didn't know he went that deep.

 

[Andy077]

I am trying very hard to answer everyones inquires and to be honest. As to the autopsy yes they can detect being narcked in the tissue and they had his dive computer. So there was a detailed graph of his exact dive the time he entered the water when he hit 184ft 199ft 346ft and the ascended in 2 minutes to the top total dive time 22 minutes. He could have been saved (although impossible under the circumstances) if we knew he went to that depth if we had 4 extra tanks and someone with experience went down to get him and they did the appropriate stops.

But there is no proof the he got narced "within 10 minutes" like you said, it's possible he drifted down the wall, didn't realize that he got negative faster and faster as he sank and his BC compressed, got WAYYY too deep, and panic-inflated his BC. I am truly sorry, but I've dove the wall at grand cayman, and it's easy to not realize you're sinking unless you're paying close attention.
I did my first "real" dive post O/W on Rembrandts at Grand Cayman, 92 feet, the DM knew i was very new, and he was my buddy, and we BOTH understood it. so, when i got low on air, quickly, it was no problem, normal ascent, everything by the book, I just didnt get much bottom time.
I learned real fast how to control depth, and it's tricky on wall dives, its possible he just wasn;t paying attention to depth until it was too late, and then had an out of control ascent.

 

[cerich]

Go back and read my post. I said he could have been saved if we had know ahead of time he went that deep but it would have taken 4 tanks and someone experienced to go down and get him and bring him up slowly with a lot of safety stops. In our case it was impossible because we didn't know he went that deep.

I'm sorry you are wrong. You can't dive air to that depth and expect anything but a bad outcome. Even if I watched him start to swim down the wall, I would chase to maybe 180-190 and stop. there is nothing more anybody could do without dying themselves.

 

[diver 85]

I have been to Cayman maybe 9 times. Never found it to be unsafe in any way. If anything the dive ops have too many rules.

Our(family dive trips) last time there was our 8th one in '93...Quit going due to too many people----bought a house on Roatan the next year & loved it----compared to GC.....

But you're correct, back then they had MANY more rules(let's say vs Belize) for safer diving..in fact @ the old Spanish Cove Resort, 1st place we were MADE to do a 3' safety stop----had the weighted ~15' bar hanging in the water with a hooka tied on for extra air if need be....