Diver Death in Cayman

[fosterboxermom]

.Who was the victims buddy?Why didn't the buddy alert the DM that the victim was going deeper than planned? Why didn't the victim choose to stay shallow with you and his fiancee(ego drove him to go deep-to say "been there-did that?")Without being there I would also guess that the deceased may have been overweighed with too much lead and had alot of trouble with bouyancy issues,again no one to blame but himself,not the DM..

The DM was his buddy in this case. The DM took everyone as a group (5) not including himself. That is how HE planned the dive. Yes he wanted to go deeper and had been practicing skills, ego, all men have ego's so if you want to say that then so be it. BUT NO ONE HAS COMMENTED ON THAT THE DM KNEW THE DIVER WAS MISSING AND DIDN'T ABORT THE DIVE. THAT SEEMS TO BE OK WITH ALL THE DM'S ON THIS BOARD!! AND DEFENDING THE DM'S.

You can say what you want but you weren't there and you didn't see this guy nor did you see that he knew Brendan was missing half way into the dive and still continued the dive and then on the safety line he was signaling to his finance' as to where Brendan was. He F'd up and no one can convice me otherwise. Yes Brendan went too deep. But the Dm should have kept his eyes on HIS group. I have been on group dives before (which is not uncommon in the Caribbean not to have a buddy only the DM) and A GOOD DM ALWAYS hovers to the side watches his divers and makes sure they are all there and then he proceeds after them. This did not happen in this case.

 

[fosterboxermom]

Mike, No I don't know the number average numbers.

 

[fosterboxermom]

First I am so sorry this tragedy happened. What a horrible situation to find yourself in. It has taken me a couple hours to get through this post and I have to say something is not sitting right with me in the OP latest remarks.



The DM clearly asked where was your buddy, this tells me he thought you were not with your buddy so either he thought you and the fiancee were a threesome with the victim or you were not clear that you were with the fiancee as was previously mentioned. Did you tell him who your buddy was? You never did answer the question on language - was the DM mother tongue English? Clearly there was miscommunication here, why? Sorry maybe you did explain in an earlier post but we are up to nearly 90 now.

Seanpaul, In previous post his fiancee' and I had to tell him 607 times we were going to be buddies because we were not going to 100ft. He couldn't get that through his head. We don't know why. I thought at one time the guy was high. He spoke English but he was either from the UK or Austrailia. In my opinion and I have been diving for 20 years from Guam to Hawaii to Mexico, Ca, FL to Bermuda to every Island in the Caribbean I have found that DM's from the UK and Austrailia are just plain cocky and want to party and don't take diving seriously. So having that experience with them that is what I took his professionalism as just that is was one of those cocky UK guys. I know I will be bashed on that one but it is true in MY experience. And no he plainly knew we were not a threesome. That was understood because Pam and I refused to go to 100ft!!!!!!



Secondly you have on your profile over 200 dives. You are an experienced diver.
I don't quite get how you are not kicking yourself here in the arse for not assuming more control over "your two inexperienced friends". I don't think I could deal with my own conscience that I didn't assume responsibility for them. You have the experience they didn't. I don't get it...

I don't mean to come down hard on anyone in this situation but something for me doesn't sit right in my gut.

Secondly, yes they were my friends, but I had just met them there in the Caymans and we became close fast. And I took responsibility for Pam and I THOUGHT THE DM WAS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR BRENDAN.

 

[fosterboxermom]

Sorry I don't quite get this qoute this on how to do it.

 

[pilot fish]

Anyone, everyone, will be narc'd at his recorded depth, 346 ft. The question is, which no autopsy can confirm, at what depth did he first experience being narc'd? Was it 100 ft, 80 ft, 200 ft on the way down? No one can know this.

First, I am truly sorry about the loss of your friend.

Do autopsy results conclusively show narcosis? I'm not contradicting you, I am curious though, my understanding of narcosis is it's caused by N2 saturation of tissues, and is a purely mental condition, ie, two people with identical levels of N2 saturation have completely different degrees of narc.
Can anyone confirm if (1) an autopsy can measure N2 saturation in tissues, and (2) the degree of intoxication can be determined postmortem?

 

[dwatts]

fosterboxermom,

First of all, my sincerest condolences to you and your friend's family. This was a tragedy and anger is understandable.

No one here (I assume) is on the jury that will hear the case so these posts are merely opinions. Of course, you knew that when you initially posted, so hopefully you take everyone's comments as their honest opinion. Here's mine...


The issue of having someone remain in the boat has come up several times. I've read this entire thread and I did not see (maybe I missed it) any evidence that a person in the boat could have prevented this tragedy. So I'm not convinced that this point is relavent at all.

I went to Grand Cayman last summer. I dove with three different operators; Red Sail, Ocean Frontiers (both on the East End) and Neptunes Divers (on SMB). All three were fun, professional, and I felt completely safe. Please note that I felt safe NOT because of whether or not they had someone on the boat. I felt safe because I took the responsibility upon myself.

My wife and I were (still are) new to diving and I knew that she would be nervous. Knowing our lack of experience and her anxiety, I assumed an EXTRA level of caution. I NEVER let her get more than 10 or 15 feet away from me. I watched her constantly and frequently asked her to watch me. In other words, I forced us to be active buddies.

We had an explicit conversation with our DMs and requested that a DM watch her closely. We never assumed anything.

Personally, I feel that a DM is nothing more than a guide. As was mentioned, they may not even get into the water. In either case, the DM is there to provide information (pre-dive as well as during the dive), they are there to provide recommendations, but they are NOT responsible for my life. I am! I understand the conflict of a new diver not "knowing" their limits and relying on the DM. However, as a diver, I feel it is my responsibility to know what I am getting into.

Again, my condolences. We don't know what a jury will eventually find in this matter but I hope that you will one day find peace.

 

[cerich]

fosterboxermom,

First of all, my sincerest condolences to you and your friend's family. This was a tragedy and anger is understandable.

No one here (I assume) is on the jury that will hear the case so these posts are merely opinions. Of course, you knew that when you initially posted, so hopefully you take everyone's comments as their honest opinion. Here's mine...


The issue of having someone remain in the boat has come up several times. I've read this entire thread and I did not see (maybe I missed it) any evidence that a person in the boat could have prevented this tragedy. So I'm not convinced that this point is relavent at all.

I went to Grand Cayman last summer. I dove with three different operators; Red Sail, Ocean Frontiers (both on the East End) and Neptunes Divers (on SMB). All three were fun, professional, and I felt completely safe. Please note that I felt safe NOT because of whether or not they had someone on the boat. I felt safe because I took the responsibility upon myself.

My wife and I were (still are) new to diving and I knew that she would be nervous. Knowing our lack of experience and her anxiety, I assumed an EXTRA level of caution. I NEVER let her get more than 10 or 15 feet away from me. I watched her constantly and frequently asked her to watch me. In other words, I forced us to be active buddies.

We had an explicit conversation with our DMs and requested that a DM watch her closely. We never assumed anything.

Personally, I feel that a DM is nothing more than a guide. As was mentioned, they may not even get into the water. In either case, the DM is there to provide information (pre-dive as well as during the dive), they are there to provide recommendations, but they are NOT responsible for my life. I am! I understand the conflict of a new diver not "knowing" their limits and relying on the DM. However, as a diver, I feel it is my responsibility to know what I am getting into.

Again, my condolences. We don't know what a jury will eventually find in this matter but I hope that you will one day find peace.

Cayman is british law, it would be very rare indeed to see any formal charges brought, this would normally just be considered "death by misadventure".

Yes, we have responisibility for ourselves as divers. I'm just amazed that people aren't stopping to put this in context of a new diver. I personally have told people NO to seeing the wall when they wanted to but I wasn't comfortable with their experience. It's no big deal. If you have people that just got certified the day before and you know it then you plan sites accordingly.

 

[pilot fish]

Sorry I don't quite get this qoute this on how to do it.

Look at the bottom of this box and you will see a box labeled, QUOTE, hit that and it will copy the post you are responding to. Hope that helps.

 

[pilot fish]

I agree, The first mistake is that this "DM" chose THAT site with this group.

The VERY LEAST that should happen is, dive op lose PADI cert, DM fired and stripped of DM cert!

Cayman is british law, it would be very rare indeed to see any formal charges brought, this would normally just be considered "death by misadventure".

Yes, we have responisibility for ourselves as divers. I'm just amazed that people aren't stopping to put this in context of a new diver. I personally have told people NO to seeing the wall when they wanted to but I wasn't comfortable with their experience. It's no big deal. If you have people that just got certified the day before and you know it then you plan sites accordingly.

 

[Seanpaul]

Fosterboxermom, my heart goes out to you. I too make friends quickly on dive trips and it would really break me to my core to experience this, so please know that. I have only experienced once where a DM took a group out and clearly didn't assign buddy teams - it was a mess. I ended up being the back up DM and chewed everyone's arse out after the dive. Let's say this dive I didn't make any friends. I am just not sure the DM realized he was the buddy, it would be so out character for a pro (not saying it can't happen tho). I would say however the experience I have with DM guides in the caribbean is completely different. It depends on the island. For example I just returned from Curacao where they guide, they don't hover to the side and watch. They state in the briefing your profile can be different from theirs but stay with your buddy no matter what. I suspect - not sure - haven't dove the Cayman's yet, that this may be more of the standard there. I can only hope that some good will come out of this.