Diver Death in Cayman

[letterboy]

I have to say I tried to come back to the board and offer "some" reasonable explanation for things that happened, however due to posts like this one where someone twists my words and takes EVERYTHING out of context. I am no longer going to provide ANY more information. You are on your own with your speculations of who what, where and when. So continue to rack your brains into mush and I will sit back and just laugh. Because I know all the facts and you don't. I do have to thank a "few" and you know who you are for being kind to me and supporting me through this horrible ordeal. I appreciate it and so does Pam.

wow, interesting and here I thought CD's post was a well thought out, non-attacking post . . .

 

[pilot fish]

yes. You may recall I blamed it on myself and the fact that I had a CO2 build up and narcosis at the same time. Had I been a new diver the DM would not have taken me there.

PiFi, correct me if I am wrong and thanks for clarifying your position, weren't you the one that had a thread on diving devils throat?

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

It does change things but I'd still like to know why this DM did not keep the whole group together at same depth?

Have you ever tried to keep a group together at the same depth? Perhaps a solution is that we all have to hang on to a rope (or maybe clip it off with a padlock) so that you can't wonder off.

In February I was in Curacao - the DM used a mob approach and we buddied up on our own. The group I was with were mostly my students or people I had been diving with before. If the DM said stay around 60' ... we stayed around 60'. I thought they were being a bit on the conservative side until the last day. On the last day the rest of the group that I was travelling with decided to go shopping and so I joined a different boat. Basically same breifing - stick around 60'. We had divers from 35' to well into triple digits. Good luck keeping the group together. Once again - if it is a mob dive then stick with the DM if that is what you want. If this person was indeed buddied up with the DM then why didn't he stick with him? He this was the DM's buddy then what if the DM had an issue that needed help?

 

[ScubaSteve]

We are talking about this incident [see my answer above ] so in this incident I fault DM and Dive Op, given what we now know. Actual facts might make things different.

This is my point. I think may people are missing the point of this area. We are trying to make it so that this does not happen again. We are not here to lay fault which seems to be your primary motive. I think we all have sort of fallen into that trap but maybe we can get back on track.

Because I know all the facts and you don't.

With all due respect (and I mean that), nobody but the deceased knows all of the facts and unfortunately those will never become public. You have added tremendous insight into this incident (within the conditions of the family and fiance) so thank you, but there are, I am sure, things that have gone missing in the way of information. Please do continue to contribute but understand that not everybody will pay attention, agree or acknowledge your information/posts. Just the life on an internet forum .

 

[Cave Diver]

I have to say I tried to come back to the board and offer "some" reasonable explanation for things that happened, however due to posts like this one where someone twists my words and takes EVERYTHING out of context. I am no longer going to provide ANY more information. You are on your own with your speculations of who what, where and when. So continue to rack your brains into mush and I will sit back and just laugh. Because I know all the facts and you don't. I do have to thank a "few" and you know who you are for being kind to me and supporting me through this horrible ordeal. I appreciate it and so does Pam.

Exactly which parts have I twisted?

I offered an analysis and recap of the information you provided with some thoughts of my own thrown in. There is nothing in there attacking you and this post gives me the impression that you're only seeking to gain the support of popular opinion.

I expressed condolences to your loss much earlier in the thread, but just because I'm sorry for you loss does not mean I'm not going to continue to form an opinion about the events as more information comes to light.

 

[mrlipis]

If this person was indeed buddied up with the DM then why didn't he stick with him? He this was the DM's buddy then what if the DM had an issue that needed help?

Scuba Moose, with all due respect this is a ridiculous statement. Buddies is a symbiotic relationship. Who in this team do you think should have been watching who. We don't even know when they got separated. Brendon had a problem and his buddy (DM/instructor/Captain/spotter) wasn't aware of it. This was his 3rd dive, in his life. I have been on plenty of dives with newbies and I make a point to keep an extra eye on them. Not that it is my responsibility but as a courtesy to a fellow diver. I remember the learning curve and it doesn't take much to over task a new diver.

 

[Web Monkey]

It does change things but I'd still like to know why this DM did not keep the whole group together at same depth?

Probably because he can't. One person can't control a mob if they don't want to follow. Keeping a small group together requires at a minimum two DMs (one to lead and one to pick up the trailing end) and on larger dives, maybe even a third to watch for strays like Mr. 340'.

However given that he had to really work at it to get that deep, I'd be pointing more at the diver and his OW instructor than the shop or DM. Someone determined to go off on his own can't be stopped unless someone is watching him.

The person who is supposed to stop someone from being a Darwin Candidate (or winner) is the diver's buddy, who would be in a position to give him the international "Are you ******* crazy?" sign and/or grab the other guy's inflator and BC and drag him back to the surface for a little slapping around, but he apparently didn't actually have a buddy. Which brings us back to the the DM thing.

I can't tell you how many times I've head the odd man out on a boat being told "The DM will be your buddy". Well, unless you're the only other person on the dive, the DM is lying and is not your buddy. The DM is everybody's "buddy" which means that in reality, he's nobody's buddy. and in the case of the mysterious transforming titles (Dive Guide), he may be nobody's buddy at all and not even be a DM.

Terry

 

[ScubaSteve]

Scuba Moose, with all due respect this is a ridiculous statement. Buddies is a symbiotic relationship. Who in this team do you think should have been watching who. We don't even know when they got separated. Brendon had a problem and his buddy (DM/instructor/Captain/spotter) wasn't aware of it. This was his 3rd dive, in his life. I have been on plenty of dives with newbies and I make a point to keep an extra eye on them. Not that it is my responsibility but as a courtesy to a fellow diver. I remember the learning curve and it doesn't take much to over task a new diver.

Things happen that DO NOT distinguish between what level a diver is. If you are a buddy, you are a buddy. END OF STORY. If you are NOT a buddy, then you are diving solo and on your own.

 

[pilot fish]

No, that's a different question Yes, I have, they used two DM's.That might have helped in this situation? My buddy and I, asked the DM if we could dive on our own, pre dive and he said, you guys are experienced so OK. At NO time when I was a new diver with less than 50 dives did I swim off on my own, or would the DM let me. I've even had my ass chewed when I was a brand new diver for lagging too far behind the group, that was during that first dive, on the dive itself.

So you're saying that you've never done a dive with a DM that had more than one group?

 

[pilot fish]

That's why you don't take a newbie to that kind of site with a 140 ft bottom. Bad judgement on DM part. Again, no mistakes by dive op and DM, this guy is alive. They are first in the chain in this fatality once he is on Cayman

Probably because he can't. One person can't control a mob if they don't want to follow. Keeping a small group together requires at a minimum two DMs (one to lead and one to pick up the trailing end) and on larger dives, maybe even a third to watch for strays like Mr. 340'.

However given that he had to really work at it to get that deep, I'd be pointing more at the diver and his OW instructor than the shop or DM. Someone determined to go off on his own can't be stopped unless someone is watching him.

The person who is supposed to stop someone from being a Darwin Candidate (or winner) is the diver's buddy, who would be in a position to give him the international "Are you ******* crazy?" sign and/or grab the other guy's inflator and BC and drag him back to the surface for a little slapping around, but he apparently didn't actually have a buddy. Which brings us back to the the DM thing.

I can't tell you how many times I've head the odd man out on a boat being told "The DM will be your buddy". Well, unless you're the only other person on the dive, the DM is lying and is not your buddy. The DM is everybody's "buddy" which means that in reality, he's nobody's buddy. and in the case of the mysterious transforming titles (Dive Guide), he may be nobody's buddy at all and not even be a DM.

Terry