Diver Dead in South Florida

[Wookie]

Yea, sort of like "opinions vary"

I was trying to use different words to convey the same meaning.

 

[jadairiii]

I've never had a live boat cut their engines.

That is problem number one, most commercial boats dont and we (well you guys) as divers just accept that as normal. Without any thought to safety, your safety.

.Keeping the boat running is especially important if they're picking up divers near anchored boats.

This is false. On a drift dive, the diver (or group) will drift past the anchored boat(s) and ultimately move into an area that will be safe for all parties. Worse regarding that thought process is that it fails to take into account that those anchored boat may have divers/swimmers in the water. So now you have a running boat trying to pick up divers in an area with other divers/swimmers.

I'm just not making this up as I go, I've worked as a dive master on dive boats, I have run boats (privately) for most of my life, large and small, inboards, outboards and I/O's, technical and recreational, large groups and small groups. I've done lots of hot drops and pick ups, in all kinds of conditions, weather and locations. I've picked up divers in areas that look like I-95 at rush hour.

Why do dive operators not like to shut off engines? My guess is that it requires skill and forethought (which they lack). Also, it is not quick, you cant just zip in, grab them, and move out, you need to plan and see where you are drifting and that gets tricky, sometimes real tricky. But it is the safest way to pick up divers/swimmers/skiers. This is not an "opinion", it is fact that picking up divers with engines running is NOT as safe as picking them up with engines off.

 

[Wookie]

Why do dive operators not like to shut off engines? My guess is that it requires skill and forethought (which they lack). Also, it is not quick, you cant just zip in, grab them, and move out, you need to plan and see where you are drifting and that gets tricky, sometimes real tricky. But it is the safest way to pick up divers/swimmers/skiers. This is not an "opinion", it is fact that picking up divers with engines running is NOT as safe as picking them up with engines off.

You are being insulting just to make a point. Fair enough, but there are many reasons a charter captain might not shut his engines down to perform a live boat pickup.

He may be on a schedule, and the extra 5 minutes to pull the dipstick for each drop and recovery may throw that schedule in the crapper. I would do 25 drops and 50 pickups a day when liveboating for NOAA. That went continuously from 8 AM to 6 PM. Throwing in 50 trips to the engineroom to service the engines would have been onerous. And, engines were started in the engineroom for many years.

As stated earlier, what is an acceptable risk for some that isn’t for you doesn’t make me stupid, it only makes you more risk averse. And if my pax are also willing to accept that risk, good on them. And I assume there were those who didn’t. I had some who were with us for one field season who never came back.

You dive. Diving isn’t safe, but it can be done safely. Obviously you accept some risks that the next door neighbor who is scared of the thought of diving wouldn’t accept. That doesn’t make you stupid, that makes you educated and tolerant of the risks. I wouldn’t jump out of an airplane if you paid me. I am petrified of heights, and see no reason to accept that risk. I wouldn’t consider you stupid if you did skydive, but I might think you’re nuts if you made a habit of it.

I don’t think that there is a single person here who would consider Jim or I lacking skills or forethought. To the contrary, someone who does this for a living must have exceptional skills and forethought to perform the same act, day in and out for 20 years. The guy lacking skills or forethought is the guy who does it once in a while and has to shut down his engines so he doesn’t bump the clutch lever by mistake.

 

[The Chairman]

That is problem number one, most commercial boats dont and we (well you guys) as divers just accept that as normal. Without any thought to safety, your safety.

You've made your point now several times and have entered the realm of argumentum per deluvium. You've got a phobia about the engines running: we get that. Most of us don't and we trust our captains. Are you a commercial captain? If so, you would be the first I've known to go on ad nauseum about this. @Wookie and @Capt Jim Wyatt have not beat this drum at all and I have dove off both of their boats. Both say they wouldn't back towards a diver, and I'll take that as a best practice from professional captains that I trust.

As far as this incident goes, we still don't have an eyewitness account of what actually happened. So far, it's all been second or third hand info, so I'm not about to draw any conclusions about what transpired, other than it's a fatality that involved a diver getting cut by the prop. I would love to hear more about what actually happened, but I'll invoke the first rule of Scuba as I patiently wait.

 

[jadairiii]

Y.... extra 5 minutes...may throw that schedule in the crapper.....is an acceptable risk ....

I appreciate the honesty, seriously, not being a troll here. And that has been the point I have been trying to make, but no one would have believed me if I had said this originally.

 

[Wookie]

I appreciate the honesty, seriously, not being a troll here. And that has been the point I have been trying to make, but no one would have believed me if I had said this originally.

Oh, I would have which is why I brought it up. The schedule is often (sadly) the driving force behind how charter dive boats work. If I had my way (I did) there would be no limit on dive time (don’t go into deco) and as long as you follow your particular NDL limits, stay in the water as long as you want. Unfortunately, we have to make a living, which means returning to the dock to get an afternoon charter out. I didn’t have to worry about that, but most day boats do.

I assure you, diving from my private boat looks remarkably different from diving from my charter boat.

 

[jadairiii]

....You've got a phobia about the engines running: we get that. ....

Actually, its a phobia about getting my legs cut off.....call me crazy...

 

[flymolo]

A horrible accident like this during a time when there is a global pandemic is sure to bring unwanted attention to divers. This is exactly why it is a good idea to observe social distancing and shelter in place orders. Not to mention how badly it could turn out if one were to get injured and needed medical attention during a time when hospitals are maxed-out caring for covid-19 patients.

/rant

 

[abnfrog]

wow just read all this , im shocked at this preventable accident , this is why my first aid kit has a piece of surgical tubing in it (I also carry a field surgical kit with hemostats but for most people that isn't an option ) the fact she probably went into shock pretty fast , means that without very fast medical attention it would be fatal . I tell my first aid students you can never have a "too big " first aid kit that's a practical size for your training , if a boat back up too me up hear I would be in there face pretty fast , that being said fla may be different JM2C PS if wookie says he wouldn't do it I think that means a lot

 

[Manatee Diver]

I tell my first aid students you can never have a "too big " first aid kit that's a practical size for your training...

I would carry useful stuff even if it is beyond your level of training. As you can hand it to someone who does have the level of training to use it. A lot of surgeons leave the house with nothing but a wallet.