Diver Dead in South Florida

[100days-a-year]

Thousands of pickups, mostly single divers but occasionally 2 or 3. The prop never get pointed at the divers. If I have to back down, it's at an angle and never without the diver or bubbles in plain sight.

I agree with the idea that people have gotten used to carelessness and incompetence being the norm and settling or even justifying it.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

nor do I enjoy diving from boats with stupid captains.

Nor do I enjoy taking stupid divers on my boat...

 

[johndiver999]

That is about all I do when diving in the ocean. From Jupiter south to the Keys. Drift dives, scooter "drift" dives, from 260' to the first reef.

There are captains that understand safety, you just have to ask. And to be honest it does limit you choices for diving. But I dont like being run over nor do I enjoy diving from boats with stupid captains. It has a tendency to limit the pleasure of diving.

I don't really agree with your characterization of (apparently) a large majority of the drift diving boat operators as "stupid". On the other hand, having the engine off does have some advantages. I dive on a private boat often and the owner, always demands that I shut the outboards off before he will board. His boat, his rules and any extra wear on the starters is his problem. He's seen a guy get his legs chopped off by props, so I can't fault his "over"- emphasis on safety.

There is one issue which does not seem to have been raised in this theoretical discussion is the potential for the boat to be accidentally bumped from neutral while the diver is behind the boat. This always scared me. When it is rough and especially on a small boat, it would not be that hard to slip when at the helm and someone could easily bump the shifter during a slip or fall. If I have the engine running and people are boarding, I always try to be really careful about this.

 

[Altamira]

Under normal circumstances and operations, there really isn't such a thing as "over" emphasis on safety. Accidents that kill and maim people are the usually the result of an under emphasis on safety, and are generally traced to a string of actions or inactions, any of which could have prevented the accident. Unfortunately, accidents will continue because people make mistakes, rely on old habits, cut corners, lose focus or attention at critical moments, and miss or ignore clues that would raise the neck hairs on others. Also, most folks don't really think through the "what ifs" in their actions, and rely on the "this is the way I do it" philosophy.

 

[DanBMW]

A lot of Boat Pick-up conversation in reference to drift diving around Ft. Lauderdale, Jupiter and the Boynton Beach area so I'll add my experience that echos many.... Never do I remember the boat's engine being turned off. Divers surface, boat maneuvers generally in reverse for a pick up, Captain tells mate the engines are in neutral, tag line is tossed, mate tells divers to come to the platform and divers make their way to the stern platform or ladder.

 

[letterboy]

Done a smattering of diving here in Florida...

The only place I remember doing a live drop, props spinning, was on the at Lawrence sea way with a Canadian side operator....

Never down here.

I think there might be confusion with some as to what "engine running" means. I'm not the expert to try and clear that up.

I also think, that it is a divers responsibility to ask about drops and pickups before they get on the boat. If you're not comfortable with the methods used, don't go. Or ask if there is an alternate way to pick up this trip.

Just because it's always been done that way, doesn't mean they can't change.

 

[The Chairman]

There is no logical, defensible, reason to pick up divers with engines running.

You must not do drift diving from a boat.

Opinions vary...

I've never had a live boat cut their engines. Most who moor will do so, but not live. Keeping the boat running is especially important if they're picking up divers near anchored boats.

Oh the drama! Far, far more important than the boat is the captain. I'm not going to second guess any captain until they prove that they aren't safe. Even then, rather than make bold ultimatums about this or that on the internet, I'll simply vote with my fins.

 

[tarponchik]

Nope, not even close. If you had looked at my profile, or knew me, you would not have asked those questions. Because of my chosen professions and hobbies I am very used to operating on the outer edge of my abilities and the capabilities of my equipment. I also know my limitations in great detail, trying very hard not to exceed them, and attempt to evaluate potentially hazardous situations with a plan A-B-C-D, always trying to keep myself and others out of harm's way. I consider myself to be fortunate that I was raised and trained to think and operate that way. It has saved my ass more times than I care to remember. In addition, having lost more than a few friends in flight accidents over a 35 year aviation career, I am very aware of the string of events that can, and do, lead to accidents. Having read too many detailed accident reports, I am certain of one fact: Most could have been avoided.

You just said that "there really isn't such a thing as "over" emphasis on safety". But from what you are telling me now I can conclude that, nevertheless, the example of "defensive driving" rules that I gave above appears an "over" emphasis on safety to you, because you do not follow such rules when you drive. So there is such a thing as "over" emphasis on safety from your perspective, correct?

 

[Wookie]

You just said that "there really isn't such a thing as "over" emphasis on safety". But from what you are telling me now I can conclude that, nevertheless, the example of "defensive driving" rules that I gave above appears an "over" emphasis on safety to you, because you do not follow such rules when you drive. So there is such a thing as "over" emphasis on safety from your perspective, correct?

I would have to agree with this. There is the commitment you can live with, or justify, or not. If you can't live with engines running when you get on the dive boat, well, that's your business, but good luck finding a captain who will shut them off for you. What one person feels is acceptable may be out of line for someone else. So what you feel may be an "overemphasis on safety" may just be someone elses "safe enough".

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

What one person feels is acceptable may be out of line for someone else.

Yea, sort of like "opinions vary"