Diver convicted in wife's drowning

[SadiesMom]

Although I didn't see the Dateline piece, I never heard anything about using a dinghy to get to the mooring line - I heard that they had moored the Caribbean Soul *on* the mooring. The only thing I remember hearing about a dinghy is that David used it to get to Christian when he brought Shelley up (and there was never anything said that I'm aware of that indicates that Christian used the mooring line for his ascent with Shelley's body). My assumption would be that Christian would do a free ascent with Shelley in such an emergency situation, rather than taking the time to drag her body to a mooring line for an ascent - at least that is what I'd do.

Again - still makes no sense not to kill her here if he'd really wanted to. Jamestown is on Conanicut Island - which lies in the middle of the entrance to Narragansett Bay. The tides there rip through those channels. The dive sites nearest the shop (Fort Wetherill - which is on the west side of the East Passage and Beavertail on the West Passage) can have totally ripping currents that head straight to Portugal if you venture too far out at the wrong tide. If he'd really wanted to kill her, he could easily have done it here without worrying at *all* about being seen and her body likely wouldn't have shown up for weeks, if it ever did (unlikely). Prosecution wouldn't have been an issue. It really doesn't make any sense when he could've done it at literally any time. It would make more sense to me if they were just vacation divers - but David and Shelley dove all the time here......

 

[SadiesMom]

I'm honestly really surprised that *none* of you seem to have ever dived like this. I'm wondering if this is a New England thing or what. I belong to a number of dive clubs and almost all of us dive like this. Unless a person is a newbie and requires hand-holding (which I'm generally more than happy to do, understand), we may enter the water separately or together but we rarely exit together - it is very often how we plan our dives. I either hunt lobster or photograph, and my buddies either hunt lobster or spearfish. All of these pursuits are generally activities which are better performed alone than in groups. So we plan to dive solo - with appropriate backup gear and pony bottles.

So maybe while you guys are shocked, I find it totally normal for two highly experienced buddies who have a plan to stick together until they reach a place, then to separate, to surface alone. It seems completely and absolutely normal to me - as long as that's their plan.

Mind you, I had a buddy ditch me u/w on a vacation trip this summer and I read her the riot act after the dive for ditching me because we hadn't discussed that in our dive plan. From then on, she let me know that if she wanted to stop to photograph something that I should go ahead on with the other divers with us. Since I trust her training and experience, I think she is able to make that call.

Seriously - do you guys ALWAY stick with your buddies 100% of the time???

 

[K_girl]

Again - still makes no sense not to kill her here if he'd really wanted to. Jamestown is on Conanicut Island - which lies in the middle of the entrance to Narragansett Bay. The tides there rip through those channels. The dive sites nearest the shop (Fort Wetherill - which is on the west side of the East Passage and Beavertail on the West Passage) can have totally ripping currents that head straight to Portugal if you venture too far out at the wrong tide. If he'd really wanted to kill her, he could easily have done it here without worrying at *all* about being seen and her body likely wouldn't have shown up for weeks, if it ever did (unlikely). Prosecution wouldn't have been an issue. It really doesn't make any sense when he could've done it at literally any time. It would make more sense to me if they were just vacation divers - but David and Shelley dove all the time here......

Since it doesn't really address the evidence or offers any exculpatory evidence, you are asking a jury not to believe it because it doesn't make sense for the accused to do it because he would get caught. I would defer to the lawyers to say whether or not this is a defense that actually works. I have no doubt that this is a typical defense.

 

[Docc]

 

[DCBC]

Seriously - do you guys ALWAY stick with your buddies 100% of the time???

Touching distance. What's the use of diving with a buddy if they are not in a position to help you. Just dive solo. The divers should be aware of the plan.

 

[K_girl]

I'm honestly really surprised that *none* of you seem to have ever dived like this. I'm wondering if this is a New England thing or what. I belong to a number of dive clubs and almost all of us dive like this. Unless a person is a newbie and requires hand-holding (which I'm generally more than happy to do, understand), we may enter the water separately or together but we rarely exit together - it is very often how we plan our dives. I either hunt lobster or photograph, and my buddies either hunt lobster or spearfish. All of these pursuits are generally activities which are better performed alone than in groups. So we plan to dive solo - with appropriate backup gear and pony bottles.

So maybe while you guys are shocked, I find it totally normal for two highly experienced buddies who have a plan to stick together until they reach a place, then to separate, to surface alone. It seems completely and absolutely normal to me - as long as that's their plan.

Mind you, I had a buddy ditch me u/w on a vacation trip this summer and I read her the riot act after the dive for ditching me because we hadn't discussed that in our dive plan. From then on, she let me know that if she wanted to stop to photograph something that I should go ahead on with the other divers with us. Since I trust her training and experience, I think she is able to make that call.

Seriously - do you guys ALWAY stick with your buddies 100% of the time???

Yes, I stick with my buddy all the time. I take a few picutres and then look around for them. If I don't see them, then I usually have a sense of the general direction they headed. I head that direction and maybe I take a few pictures along the way, but I usually hook-up with them every few minutes or so. When I am down to a certain amount of air in my tank and it is time to ascend, I usually find my buddy and stick very close to them as the ascent is probably the riskiest part of the dive.

I would find what you are talking about a highly risky plan unless you were diving with pony bottles, etc. If that was the case regarding Swain and Shelley, then I would expect that they would have rented the necessary pony bottles. If not, then I think Swain has a problem.

I've also heard stories about Swain's heroics in rescuing other experienced divers with air, because he was there, paying attention, watching and caring about others - and yet, he has a different M.O. with his wife? So lets say - there are no pony bottles. After 8-10 minutes, he never even looks for her. I still wonder what Thwaites understanding was - did he think that Swain and Shelley hooked-up on the bottom and Shelley was fine, swimming around because she had communicated to David she still had plenty of air? Did Swain actually ask where Shelley was when he surfaced?

Hey Docc!

 

[idocsteve]

Hell, on a totally different angle, if you were going to commit the type of crime they claimed as the perfect murder, would you bring along all those witnesses?

There were no witnesses.

Unless you consider a sea anemone to be a witness?

Here's something else I wonder.

If David *were* going to kill Shelley....why wouldn't he do it up here where visibility is typically crappy?

Same reason he said the last time he saw her she was "happily swimming along like a gal comfortable in her environment", within 5 minutes of when she supposedly panicked and ripped apart her own gear in the process.

People don't always react logically especially if they're carrying out murder.

Also it was the last dive of the trip...there's good possibility that David started considering it during the week and decided to do it as a "spur of the moment, last chance" sort of thing.


Hey does David have internet access at the prison library?

It would be nice to get his input on this.

 

[SadiesMom]

Since it doesn't really address the evidence or offers any exculpatory evidence, you are asking a jury not to believe it because it doesn't make sense for the accused to do it because he would get caught. I would defer to the lawyers to say whether or not this is a defense that actually works.

I'm not asking a jury to believe anything nor am I suggesting this as a legal defense. I'm simply making what seems to me to be a point of common sense - one of those "just use your head" moments.

 

[SadiesMom]

I still wonder what Thwaites understanding was - did he think that Swain and Shelley hooked-up on the bottom and Shelley was fine, swimming around because she had communicated to David she still had plenty of air? Did Swain actually ask where Shelley was when he surfaced?

When David came up, he asked if Shelley was up yet. Christian Thwaites said no. That's been discussed and documented on on this thread a number of pages back. It was part of Christian Thwaites' testimony.

 

[K_girl]

Egad - thank you for the transcript links. Below are the translations.

Swain cross examination, part 1.

Source: http://static.mgnetwork.com/jar/media_path/swain_cross_1.mp3

Prosecutor: .. is that you attacked Shelley under the water and struggled. You held onto her mask and she was struggling with you for the mask, having held her mouthpiece and the strap and mouthpiece detached and the strap got broken.

Swain: No.

Prosecutor: And when you were speaking to the police, you had a slip of the tongue. And it is why you mentioned to the police that you were not sure if her face mask and mouthpiece was still on because you knew that in a struggle, the snorkel mouthpiece was detached.

Swain: No. I don’t know any of this. That didn’t happen.

Prosecutor: But where.. you have not answered me. But at that time, the snorkel without the mouthpiece was at the bottom of the sea. Later retrieved by Mr. Brown. Don’t you agree? ..Pause.. Christian didn’t bring it up.

Swain: I presume Mr. Brown brought it up, yes.

Prosecutor: Christian didn’t bring it up.

Swain: He did not report bringing it up.

Prosecutor: So the only way you knew that the mouthpiece wasn’t on the snorkel was because you were involved in it being detached from the snorkel.

Swain: No.

Prosecutor: That’s why you mentioned it there.

Swain: No.