Diver conservation/safety questions for paper I'm writing

[browncd81]

Hey group, I'm a graduate student (and a diver) and I'm writing a 35 page systems analysis paper . I chose the recreational diving industry. My job is to analyze the industry and make recommendations, sort of like a consulting project. Having dived for a few years, I definitely have lots of my own ideas. But I'd like to poll the group though, and collaborate your ideas as an appendix to my paper. If you've got the time, please respond to my questions. When I refer to industry, that includes any certification bodies, dive operators, manufacturers, etc..

1. Are you satisfied with the level of conservation efforts made by the scuba diving industry?

2. Are you satisfied with the general safety practices of the industry? (yes I know this could explode into a DIR/GUE type debate)

3. Should there be any collaborative effort in the industry to improve #1 or #2?

I look forward to reading what you write, and if you're interested in the paper in its final format, email me and I'll be happy to send it

Thanks,
Derek

 

[drbill]

1. No. The training elements beyond basic OW certification that focus on educating divers about marine life and marine conservation seem rather flimsy at best. I have not been impressed with many of the attempts I've seen to teach this component... especially when instructors and DMs don't even know the species they are talking about. Of course this is really dependent on the individual instructor or DM as there are some who are very good, but I think in general this component teaches little.

2. No. I feel the training that people receive today in OW courses is barely minimal, especially compared to the training we received for OW courses back in the 60s through Los Angeles County. We were taken through essentially the equivalent of OW, AOW and Rescue in that course. I do realize that the economics come into play here. A course comparable to the LAC course I took in the 60s might well run $1,200-1,500 which would exclude a lot of people from entering diving.

3. Would be nice if the agencies did work together on this but I'm not holding my breath (because that's the very first (and only) instruction I ever got back in 1961 when I first used SCUBA and it still holds true today!).

 

[browncd81]

Thanks Drbill. Here are a few of my thoughts to hopefully spark some discussion, as these are things I'm going to write about in my paper... plus I'm going to mine SB like crazy today and get more ideas...

1. The fatality rate in diving is higher if you equate one jump to one dive

2. In skydiving, you have to have proficiency requirements to jump within a certain time or take a safety class - not sure if this is appropriate for diving with economics etc, but in diving you can get a cert card and then not use it for five years and then all of a sudden go diving, and you may be able to talk the dive shop out of making you do a refresher

3. Its seems there are LOTS of PADI 5* dive shops.. I think 4* should be the new 5* and to get 5* the shop should be somehow actively involved in conservations efforts of its playground (the reefs it dives on). I know shops located in certain countries have different cultures and laws to contend with, but I'm sure there's a fair way to pull this off.

4. Some US states require health inspection scores to be displayed in clear view of the cash register in restaurants.. dive shops should have an equivalent type rating to hold them accountable. One especially important item is the status of the compressor - when was it last inspected/tested, etc? Divers should have access to this information rather than have to blindly trust the air they're given from a dive shop

5. Since dive shops can rent out tanks and then people can dive on their own, they should be required to maintain a chart of local waters with clearly labeled sections describing the difficulty level of the dive sites.. just to ensure that if there is an incident resulting in diver death.. the shop owner can't just say "I told him not to dive there", whether true or not. When a shop is renting a tank to someone, especially in an area with some dangerous sites, they're giving some one a lot of power and responsibility. Best make sure they are 100% clear they have the right info. A conversation on where to go may be misunderstood, hopefully a chart would be cut and dry

6. Tanks must have hydros and visual inspections within a certain periodicity, but regulator maintenance is based more on loose guidelines. Is it too much to ask to have the person who owns the reg maintain the receipt and show it to a dive shop when renting tanks? You are supposed to show them your cert card and sometimes your dive log... If I were a dive shop and someone wanted to go on a boat dive or something and use their own gear, I'd like to have confidence their reg won't fail during the dive. Same goes if you rent a reg.. there should be some accountability of the service done on it. I know this from experience bc I had a friend last summer rent gear from a dive shop that would have failed on him had he not noticed this on his predive checks

7. I think it would be great if SNUBA was held accountable for teaching conservation practices. Correct me if I'm wrong, but SNUBA results in some "divers" in the water with no buoyancy control and bad weighting who have no appreciation for how fragile the reefs are. They are given a quick class and then sent to the reef - is there any mention of not smacking the reef with their bodies? Maybe there is, and this is a moot point. But my impression is SNUBA is a quick and easy money maker. Also, if dive shops ran SNUBA programs, would they eventually introduce people to diving that never would have been introduced before?

8. Divemasters should be certified for certain zones of the world. Certain waters in the world should be designated as "challenging" and require experience before you can lead a pack of divers. A divemaster who learns in Cozumel but then moves to Britian should be probationary until he gets at least 15 dives in the local waters. I'm sure many good shops enforce this at their level, but are there hard requirements within the cert agencies?

9. I don't have an easy answer for this, but I think WWW gear discounters are hurting dive shops. And dive shops the source of new divers, not websites. So goes the dive shops, so goes the industry (divers, manufacturers, liveaboards, etc). But the logic also goes that the ability to buy gear for cheaper than what is sold in shops keeps divers diving over the years

10. I wonder what percentage of camera manufacturers sales are sold to underwater photographers.. I'm sure very little. So I think its unfeasible for manufacturers to make cameras the same size and shape with each iteration of a series, so that the same housing fits. Or is it? Could they make a standard configuration, even if not as compact as the main model, that just gets upgraded internal components at the same rate that their flagship series gets upgraded, but keeps the same basic size and shape? Like the Canon S90.... may a spinoff called the S90UW which is a little bit boxier but works the same. When S90 upgrades to S95 or S100, then come out with an S95UW or S100UW that is the same size as the S90UW.

11. Should the diving industry "seize" the reefs and fight harder for conservation, making itself the authority on reef conservation? I'm thinking one danger is that if not, some other Protect the Reef type NGO or worse, government agency, might do so and then deem diving as hazardous to reef safety, and start to impose restrictions on diving on reefs. One argument against me is that it hasn't happened yet. But another argument is that the reefs are decline so it may be inevitable at some point

 

[H2O 70]

1. Are you satisfied with the level of conservation efforts made by the scuba diving industry?

No. Of course I would like to see more, but it general I think they do an OK job. PADI has their AWARE project and whenever I get my SDI/TDI newsletter there is usually some argument in there about conservationism. They promote buoyancy skills and relate how that can impact reefs. They could really, really do more.

2. Are you satisfied with the general safety practices of the industry? (yes I know this could explode into a DIR/GUE type debate)

No. I think a lot of the safety practices that are taught at the OW level are sort of bare bones. I would love to see at the OW level more emphasis put on gas management. I've seen a lot of instructors add this in themselves and help the students begin to figure out their SAC or RMV to better plan their dives, but I would like to see that in actual OW manuals.

3. Should there be any collaborative effort in the industry to improve #1 or #2?

Most definitely. A lot of certification agencies are somehow related to the RSTC. It seems to me that they could actually do something.

 

[H2O 70]

Thanks Drbill. Here are a few of my thoughts to hopefully spark some discussion, as these are things I'm going to write about in my paper... plus I'm going to mine SB like crazy today and get more ideas...

1. The fatality rate in diving is higher if you equate one jump to one dive

I think skydivers are a much younger and much fitter crowd. I would compare skydivers to rock climbers. I don't think skydivers to SCUBA divers is fair. The only close analogy way be equipment inspections, pre dive/pre jump.

2. In skydiving, you have to have proficiency requirements to jump within a certain time or take a safety class - not sure if this is appropriate for diving with economics etc, but in diving you can get a cert card and then not use it for five years and then all of a sudden go diving, and you may be able to talk the dive shop out of making you do a refresher

I agree.

3. Its seems there are LOTS of PADI 5* dive shops.. I think 4* should be the new 5* and to get 5* the shop should be somehow actively involved in conservations efforts of its playground (the reefs it dives on). I know shops located in certain countries have different cultures and laws to contend with, but I'm sure there's a fair way to pull this off.

Not a bad idea.

4. Some US states require health inspection scores to be displayed in clear view of the cash register in restaurants.. dive shops should have an equivalent type rating to hold them accountable. One especially important item is the status of the compressor - when was it last inspected/tested, etc? Divers should have access to this information rather than have to blindly trust the air they're given from a dive shop

I've seen this done about 50/50. Locally there are a couple of shops that post all of their licenses, 'diplomas' of all their instructors, so on so forth. There are also a copuple of shops that post their air quality test above their fill stations. They post it as a 'badge of honor. I would like to see this actually required across the board. The more experienced divers know what to look for and no what to ask. For instance if a shop that does partial pressure blending for EAN, I know that there is a good chance they are going to have good air. This is something though that could be incorporated more into Open Water. Educate the consumer a bit more.

5. Since dive shops can rent out tanks and then people can dive on their own, they should be required to maintain a chart of local waters with clearly labeled sections describing the difficulty level of the dive sites.. just to ensure that if there is an incident resulting in diver death.. the shop owner can't just say "I told him not to dive there", whether true or not. When a shop is renting a tank to someone, especially in an area with some dangerous sites, they're giving some one a lot of power and responsibility. Best make sure they are 100% clear they have the right info. A conversation on where to go may be misunderstood, hopefully a chart would be cut and dry

This may be a customer service issue, but if I'm renting tanks, I don't want to be told where I should and should not dive. There has to be some sort of Ownership of accountability and responsibility of the diver to dive within their limits of training and experience.

6. Tanks must have hydros and visual inspections within a certain periodicity, but regulator maintenance is based more on loose guidelines. Is it too much to ask to have the person who owns the reg maintain the receipt and show it to a dive shop when renting tanks? You are supposed to show them your cert card and sometimes your dive log... If I were a dive shop and someone wanted to go on a boat dive or something and use their own gear, I'd like to have confidence their reg won't fail during the dive. Same goes if you rent a reg.. there should be some accountability of the service done on it. I know this from experience bc I had a friend last summer rent gear from a dive shop that would have failed on him had he not noticed this on his predive checks

If a dive shop rents you a defective reg and something happens due to poor maintenance it is on the shop. I maintain my own reg and gear. I've had stuff come back from the shop serviced and it comes back over tuned and freeflowing. I got the tools and the training and learned how to do it myself. I can't show a receipt for service. So does that mean I can't rent a tank? If I die on my own reg because of something I did wrong, we'll, that is my own fault.

7. I think it would be great if SNUBA was held accountable for teaching conservation practices. Correct me if I'm wrong, but SNUBA results in some "divers" in the water with no buoyancy control and bad weighting who have no appreciation for how fragile the reefs are. They are given a quick class and then sent to the reef - is there any mention of not smacking the reef with their bodies? Maybe there is, and this is a moot point. But my impression is SNUBA is a quick and easy money maker. Also, if dive shops ran SNUBA programs, would they eventually introduce people to diving that never would have been introduced before?

I'll have to ponder this one.

8. Divemasters should be certified for certain zones of the world. Certain waters in the world should be designated as "challenging" and require experience before you can lead a pack of divers. A divemaster who learns in Cozumel but then moves to Britian should be probationary until he gets at least 15 dives in the local waters. I'm sure many good shops enforce this at their level, but are there hard requirements within the cert agencies?

No, but interesting concept.

9. I don't have an easy answer for this, but I think WWW gear discounters are hurting dive shops. And dive shops the source of new divers, not websites. So goes the dive shops, so goes the industry (divers, manufacturers, liveaboards, etc). But the logic also goes that the ability to buy gear for cheaper than what is sold in shops keeps divers diving over the years

I think dive shops are hurting dive shops, not the internet. Dive shops don't think in volume sales. I would totally buy 100% of my gear locally if they were competitive with online sources. They aren't. Online store have the advantage because the world is their oyster and they don't have the overhead but online stores don't have air and I can't afford a compressor. I think it is up to the dive shops and the online sources to come up with a viable business model. The stores that don't are going to go bye, bye and when a viable business model arises they'll reopen.

10. I wonder what percentage of camera manufacturers sales are sold to underwater photographers.. I'm sure very little. So I think its unfeasible for manufacturers to make cameras the same size and shape with each iteration of a series, so that the same housing fits. Or is it? Could they make a standard configuration, even if not as compact as the main model, that just gets upgraded internal components at the same rate that their flagship series gets upgraded, but keeps the same basic size and shape? Like the Canon S90.... may a spinoff called the S90UW which is a little bit boxier but works the same. When S90 upgrades to S95 or S100, then come out with an S95UW or S100UW that is the same size as the S90UW.

No feeling about this.

11. Should the diving industry "seize" the reefs and fight harder for conservation, making itself the authority on reef conservation? I'm thinking one danger is that if not, some other Protect the Reef type NGO or worse, government agency, might do so and then deem diving as hazardous to reef safety, and start to impose restrictions on diving on reefs. One argument against me is that it hasn't happened yet. But another argument is that the reefs are decline so it may be inevitable at some point

I think the dive industry can sponsor reefs. Not psyched about seizing reefs. I think it all boils down to better diver education.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'll just comment on #1. I think the industry (at least PADI, which is all I'm very familiar with, and dive shops) are doing the best they can advising divers about protecting reefs, etc. --maybe even going a bit overboard, though I have read of some pretty incredible things that (resort) divers have been seen doing to reefs. Diver awareness is important, but it is agreed that diver damage is a tiny part of the problem. What needs to be done is more of an all out campaign for the general public to be aware of the major causes for reef/marine life destruction-- such as bottom trawling, fishing longlines, pesticides and resort hotels built right on the coast (which causes much reef damage even when mangroves are not destroyed). Ironically, many divers stay in these resorts and then think they're not contributing to reef destruction by not touching the reef. I'm not even mentioning global warming (= coral bleaching) as this is a much larger related topic. Fixing all this won't happen until humanity is once again pushed to the brink of disaster and just HAS to change things. So I don't know if the dive industry can reach such a wide audience and affect politics very much.

 

[browncd81]

"I think skydivers are a much younger and much fitter crowd. I would compare skydivers to rock climbers. I don't think skydivers to SCUBA divers is fair. The only close analogy way be equipment inspections, pre dive/pre jump."

You make a good point there. I'll be sure to limit what comparisons I make between the two sports. Thanks!

"I've seen this done about 50/50. Locally there are a couple of shops that post all of their licenses, 'diplomas' of all their instructors, so on so forth. There are also a copuple of shops that post their air quality test above their fill stations. They post it as a 'badge of honor. I would like to see this actually required across the board. The more experienced divers know what to look for and no what to ask. For instance if a shop that does partial pressure blending for EAN, I know that there is a good chance they are going to have good air. This is something though that could be incorporated more into Open Water. Educate the consumer a bit more."

I agree, although at this point I'd have to point out that the trust of my discussion is going to be that lower 25% percentile diver.. the one that took the cert course three years ago during their honeymoon and then decides they want to get back into it but is too lazy/hardheaded to reread their manual to see what all they forgot and then take a refresher course . There's lots of people diving that wouldn't think or remember to ask something like that, even if their cert course taught them to. And you can't blame them for not wanting to be as serious about diving as the average SB poster. In my paper I'd like to come up with recommendations that protect these divers, while at the same time provide zero extra restrictions on current divers... with the only exception being the extra burden of having to maintain regulator service receipts. Just grab a paper clip and stick it in your dive log... I'm sure that not only will showing it to dive shops be beneficial, but having to keep it may be a good reminder to yourself to get that reg refurbed.

"This may be a customer service issue, but if I'm renting tanks, I don't want to be told where I should and should not dive. There has to be some sort of Ownership of accountability and responsibility of the diver to dive within their limits of training and experience."

The intent here is not for a dive shop to be any more or any less forceful about telling you where to go, but to give you more information. Look at beaches that warn surfers and swimmers about rip tides with signs. That's good information that people need to know. But its still their call to heed or disregard the warnings. I think a shop who gives someone (like the person I mentioned above) the ability to dive without supervision ought to at least have on display on the wall a layout of local dive sites with information the divers might find useful regarding safety. You wouldn't go to a skydiving drop zone and not find a wind gauge or not have weather information, for example, because the n00bs need to know that information to decide if/when they're gonna jump that day.

"I think dive shops are hurting dive shops, not the internet. Dive shops don't think in volume sales. I would totally buy 100% of my gear locally if they were competitive with online sources. They aren't. Online store have the advantage because the world is their oyster and they don't have the overhead but online stores don't have air and I can't afford a compressor. I think it is up to the dive shops and the online sources to come up with a viable business model. The stores that don't are going to go bye, bye and when a viable business model arises they'll reopen."

I found all of your responses very helpful, but especially this one. This is something I'll really investigate in my paper. Thanks.

"I think the dive industry can sponsor reefs. Not psyched about seizing reefs. I think it all boils down to better diver education."

Yeah, seize was a strong word, stronger than what I meant. I'm under the impression that because these are dying, someone will eventually have to jump in and show some stewardship, and by that I mean setting policy. Is the industry actively working to make popular reefs protected marine parks, like those in Cozumel and Bonaire? I'll have to look into this as well. I know the Coz/Bon model can't be replicated everywhere due to politics/economics/etc, but on the other hand its a great model that should be propagated where possible.

Thanks for all the responses so far... it's gonna help further my education

 

[browncd81]

What needs to be done is more of an all out campaign for the general public to be aware of the major causes for reef/marine life destruction-- such as bottom trawling, fishing longlines, pesticides and resort hotels built right on the coast (which causes much reef damage even when mangroves are not destroyed). Ironically, many divers stay in these resorts and then think they're not contributing to reef destruction by not touching the reef. I'm not even mentioning global warming (= coral bleaching) as this is a much larger related topic. Fixing all this won't happen until humanity is once again pushed to the brink of disaster and just HAS to change things. So I don't know if the dive industry can reach such a wide audience and affect politics very much.

Thanks TMHeimer, and thats exactly the kinds of things I'm going to write about when talking about conservation. Although this is really the scope of where our conservation efforts should be, the hard part is coming up with the resources. I'm thinking instead of Project AWARE or some other organization going all out, the best solution would be with some strategic alliances with organizations such as Sharkwater and others. Also, I wasn't really aware of H20 70 until this thread, but I'm looking over the page and it looks like some really good stuff. I'm already a big fan of their mission statement... "To Promote Ocean Conservation through SCUBA Diving Education."

As a diver, I'd like to see that divers are somehow involved in the conservation efforts or at least the dialogue regarding conservation efforts to ensure that we are not seen as part of the problem but rather as a part of the solution. If the diving industry had an official Conservation Alliance or something to that effect, that would really demonstrate our commitment to being responsible stewards of the reefs we love to do on. The worst thing that can happen to us is uninformed governments unfairly grouping us together with longliners, shark finners, etc and saying we are all destructive to the oceans.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I'll just comment on #1. I think the industry (at least PADI, which is all I'm very familiar with, and dive shops) are doing the best they can advising divers about protecting reefs, etc. --maybe even going a bit overboard, though I have read of some pretty incredible things that (resort) divers have been seen doing to reefs. Diver awareness is important, but it is agreed that diver damage is a tiny part of the problem. What needs to be done is more of an all out campaign for the general public to be aware of the major causes for reef/marine life destruction-- such as bottom trawling, fishing longlines, pesticides and resort hotels built right on the coast (which causes much reef damage even when mangroves are not destroyed). Ironically, many divers stay in these resorts and then think they're not contributing to reef destruction by not touching the reef. I'm not even mentioning global warming (= coral bleaching) as this is a much larger related topic. Fixing all this won't happen until humanity is once again pushed to the brink of disaster and just HAS to change things. So I don't know if the dive industry can reach such a wide audience and affect politics very much.

While i think PADIs efforts are commendable, I don't thing they are actually doing divers or the environment justice by voicing concern while not teaching appropriate skill levels. When i took my PADI OW and AOW i never truly learned great buoyancy control and never even heard the term trim until recently. There are no real standards to their evaluations and they pass more people who are unequipped to operate around sensitive animals safely than they do competent divers. Not that it is the divers fault, though--they just don't know.

I wont say that they do all harm, though. They help raise awareness of the marine environment and its sensitivity throughout almost all of their courses. I just wish they would follow all the way through by being more stringent on preparing divers to maintain buoyancy.

That all being said, some people don't care about the environment and believe that destruction of animals is just too bad. I am very conservation minded, and I hear ridicule for it CONSTANTLY. So, perhaps there is just some things that are well beyond the scope of what the dive industry can control. I doubt there are any agencies that would consciously not certify a student that was clearly reckless and disregarded the environment (although, sometimes I think they should weed those people out).

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I think dive shops are hurting dive shops, not the internet. Dive shops don't think in volume sales. I would totally buy 100% of my gear locally if they were competitive with online sources. They aren't. Online store have the advantage because the world is their oyster and they don't have the overhead but online stores don't have air and I can't afford a compressor. I think it is up to the dive shops and the online sources to come up with a viable business model. The stores that don't are going to go bye, bye and when a viable business model arises they'll reopen.

YES! LDSs that dont keep up on current dive trends, charge too much, don't think they should compete, because they offer some intangible service that doesn't really do anything for avid divers are all what hurts them. They are married to OLD ideas or brand loyalty/pushing, and they aren't flexible when it comes to customer demands/needs. They work to satisfy the lowest common denominator--the uninformed diver, and they sow the seeds of revolt that way.

Smart dive shops have evolved to offer great deals locally and over the internet. It is just so sad to see shops 5 states away give better service, be more responsive to my needs, and be more helpful than a shop 10 minutes away.